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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Shreked PGrens... Balanced or no?

Shreked PGrens... Balanced or no?

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Puppetmaster
6 Apr 2014, 11:21 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 01:06 AMwooof


guards are support units. theyre not meant to attack vehicles in the same way as pgrens. combine guards with a zis or su85 and they synergize a lot better than pgrens and a pak.


Why do the Germans deserve far superior at infantry when they already have superior armour? Guards have to be paired with something else to have any hope of killing tanks, where as panzergrens do not. They are more than capable of killing armour on their own. That is my issue with them. Buff guards to be the same as Panzer grens and make them a core unit. Then you can leave panzer grens as they are.












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tuvok
6 Apr 2014, 11:42 AM
#42
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shrecks are fine, there are bigger problems that need a look first...but the scatter nerf on moving vehicles was a bad idea in the first place
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spajn
6 Apr 2014, 11:46 AM
#43
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soviet are meant to be shit because they were shit irl

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Puppetmaster
6 Apr 2014, 12:18 PM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 11:46 AMspajn
soviet are meant to be shit because they were shit irl


Using that logic, Germans are meant to lose because they lost the war.












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Kreatiir
6 Apr 2014, 12:58 PM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 11:46 AMspajn
soviet are meant to be shit because they were shit irl


All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
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raw
6 Apr 2014, 13:14 PM
#46
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 11:46 AMspajn
soviet are meant to be shit because they were shit irl


they still won the war tho
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
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VonMecha
6 Apr 2014, 13:49 PM
#47
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So if Sovs deserve guards to be better vs tanks maybe German tanks should be better vs Sov infantry.And guards should have to spend 120 munitions to upgrade to antitank. If you feel pgs are too strong vs tanks, how does making guards stronger vs tanks solve the pg problem?
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WiFiDi
6 Apr 2014, 13:50 PM
#48
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cmon there is no reason this needs to turn into a flame war. :)
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VonMecha
6 Apr 2014, 13:52 PM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 12:18 PMPuppetmaster


Using that logic, Germans are meant to lose because they lost the war.


Some would argue they lost the war because of bad decision making by the high command as opposed to their military capability. In Coh you are the high command.
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Puppetmaster
6 Apr 2014, 13:56 PM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 13:49 PMVonMecha
So if Sovs deserve guards to be better vs tanks maybe German tanks should be better vs Sov infantry.And guards should have to spend 120 munitions to upgrade to antitank. If you feel pgs are too strong vs tanks, how does making guards stronger vs tanks solve the pg problem?


I would love to trade guards in their current state to where you can get panzershrek equivalent weapons for 120 muni. As it stands now soviets have to spend 100 muni to make the unit half useful against armour just for button. People (German only players) seem to think shrek grens are more than balanced. If they truly believe this to be the case, then buffing guards is an option and would atleast give soviets equal infantry based at. As it standards now their infantry at is inferior not to mention doctrinal only.

Please tell me which tank has problems against infantry. The only 2 I can think of are the Panther (but it has an mg upgrade and is far better vs infantry than an su85, not to mention strong armour and blitzlol) and the Elephant. Elephant has crazy armour even on the rear that T34's struggle to penetrate and what is quite frankly stupid view range. It's also much better at taking down armour vs anything the soviets have.
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Katitof
6 Apr 2014, 13:58 PM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 10:51 AMbuckers
it should be 1 for 60, it was like that in the beta and it was perfect

Sure it was.
For german only players, not for balance.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Katitof
6 Apr 2014, 13:59 PM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 11:46 AMspajn
soviet are meant to be shit because they were shit irl

So lets cut the unit costs of all soviet units by 80%, because that was pretty much the difference in the economies behind the armies back then.

Up for that?

That german fanbois....
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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VonMecha
6 Apr 2014, 16:11 PM
#53
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Well in that case since Hitler wont be commanding, and people with 2 brain cells and absent of being meglomanaics will, the Germans will crush Sovs by not getting entire army groups decimated for the pride of Hitler and Germans win coh2 game over. Great argument.
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Katitof
6 Apr 2014, 16:24 PM
#54
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 16:11 PMVonMecha
Well in that case since Hitler wont be commanding, and people with 2 brain cells and absent of being meglomanaics will, the Germans will crush Sovs by not getting entire army groups decimated for the pride of Hitler and Germans win coh2 game over. Great argument.


I wouldn't be so sure about the megalomania part.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Ginnungagap
6 Apr 2014, 17:00 PM
#55
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I believe in 1v1 PGrens with schrecks are fine. They are a high-cost, high-efficiency unit, and that's alright on a small scale.

In 2v2+ their value especially in the late game increases, because the munitions cost is easily affordable. Massed PGrens can easily attack move multiple soviet tanks except IS2, ISU152 and KV8. All other soviet tanks rely heavily on rng to do damage, as mentioned before. The scatter change on move (which i personally like) and negligible range difference prevents effective kiting with tanks.

That's also when you notice the lack of any serious soviet infantry AT. (I would be in favor for a bazooka upgrade for engineers once T3/T4 is up)
To specifically address the "massed PG problem": Decreasing the penetration and range slightly, while also decreasing the munitions cost a little bit could give them a more reasonable performance.
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"Axis can STALL2WIN to get to that late game, there is really no hope for USF competitively short of getting the best side of the best USF maps and being an order of magnitude better than your opponent." - SageOfTheSix, after losing to Jesulin's Ostheer on Semoskiy Winter
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c r u C e
6 Apr 2014, 20:08 PM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 11:46 AMspajn
soviet are meant to be shit because they were shit irl


Please stop eating sh*t,it's beginning to smell
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Cyridius
7 Apr 2014, 11:55 AM
#57
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PzGrens are an inefficient platform for any kind of anti-tank weaponry and Schreks are a sign of either stupidity or desperation. I've always advocated for 5 model PzGren squads.
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Katitof
7 Apr 2014, 12:27 PM
#58
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jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2014, 11:55 AMCyridius
PzGrens are an inefficient platform for any kind of anti-tank weaponry and Schreks are a sign of either stupidity or desperation. I've always advocated for 5 model PzGren squads.


Use what wehr and PE did like... always?
Don't treat PGrens with shrecks as attacking AT, you have tanks for that.

Shrecks in vCoH were for protection of PaKs, 88s and Marders and this haven't changed in CoH2.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Lichtbringer
7 Apr 2014, 13:22 PM
#59
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Posts: 476

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2014, 10:51 AMbuckers
it should be 1 for 60, it was like that in the beta and it was perfect
It was 75 (=

On Topic: you can easily kite Pgrens wih Shreks already.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
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WiFiDi
7 Apr 2014, 13:25 PM
#60
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i think the problem is when you build them in mass. and is probably highlighted more so in this patch as tier 2 is very powerful for germans now. while tier 3 and 4 for sovs is so hard to get to.

a m5 aa truck can be very good against pgren blobs because it outranges them. ;)
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:P and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!:nahnah:
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