The reign of SdkfZ 222

Hello guys,
First of all, forgive me for my english, it is not my native language.
So, i recently met a new strategy for german faction, i would like you to watch this cast ; It's a short one because the Axis faction end the game in 10min : SdkfZ power

I will make a quick recap of the german build order :
-engineer X3 /X4
-Tech up T2
-Build as many scout car as you can (240MP + 20 fuel)
-Upgrade it (55 ammo each)
-Rush the ennemy base, rape everything
-cap all the map, upgrade shreks/tech up to panthers (if the game last until this moment)

I met this strat in 2V2, wich means at 6min there were 5/6 scout car upgraded in my base. if you're doubting i play soviets

Advantage of this "easy win" strat :
- High mobility : You can flank easily, AT gun unable to handle 5 scout car since it can't Oneshot them
- Extremely high fire power with the upgraded gun.
-If guard are called in, wait for them with all the scout cars
-In 5 min, soviets can't plant enough mines/ Soviet have to be lucky to hit your scout car
-No need to micro
Drawbacks :

Could you post some feedback please? I really like this game but it become less and less enjoyable...to play as soviet.

I don't do a lot of 2v2s but your best bet vs. scout cars are mines, soviet mines are not only cheap but very effective vs. the scout cars, as soon as you get 30 ammo, put one and don't stop.

Also, Penals small arm fire are also effective vs. the Scout Car.

you tried to abuse penals and m3s. they abused 222s. it just so happens your strat is weak against theirs. try making a more balanced army instead of just penal flamers in cars.

also one of the soviets was floating 1000+ mp and waited a few minutes before calling in guards even though 222s were in your base. it helps when you actually build units.

I don't do a lot of 2v2s but your best bet vs. scout cars are mines, soviet mines are not only cheap but very effective vs. the scout cars, as soon as you get 30 ammo, put one and don't stop.

Also, Penals small arm fire are also effective vs. the Scout Car.

I'm not sure you watched the cast, i used penals, they get owned. Mines are good,yes, but as i said, you have to be lucky...
110 ammo for germans = 2 scout car upgrade
110 ammo for soviets = 1 Guards upgrade or 3/4 mines and not flame thrower/no molotov/no At nade

@ Woof : we lacked words when we saw that. And for you nothing is wrong with the fact that basic engineer+ rush for scout car can beat engineer/M3/penals/guards?
I should get At gun at 5 min, condirering there are engineer battalion on the way? Also i was getting guards to balance my strat, and my teammate planned to go for Soviet industry

If he really went with 4 Pio start, you should have no problem forcing him off and capping your side of the map. They are good up close but suffer to Maxims or Penals. Even conscript spam, provided you are good at micro, will easily beat this back. He will either have to push forward with the Pio's to kill your men, or stand back and be ineffective while trying to capture points. Pio's without support can also be pushed back with well microed scout car. Though I would be hesitant to use this if you fear an AC rush.

Also make sure to get Guards and place them in cover. Does not matter how many cars he has they will pick away at them. If he really has 4 or more cars you can easily afford to get two guard squads. Also note that with the changes in armor values it is very reasonable to merge conscripts into guards now.

Once you beat him off you will win, since he has no other units. This strategy is extremely heavy on units in the beginning with few follow up possibilities. Waiting until T4 panthers is insane because that will be delayed by 3-8 minutes. Now you are talking about a panther around the 20 minute mark.

If you are still struggling with this consider having one of you go with the defensive doctrine. You will know it is coming because you will see 4 pios. Then get a lot of 45 mm AT guns. They are extremely good against the AC, and are very cheap.

Mines are also a great suggestion. Place them in roads leading to the base. Also an early zis in this case with a maxim to protect it is not a bad thing to have. If the other player on your team has AT nades and conscripts near the zis, the AC's cannot circle strafe the gun.

I'm not sure you watched the cast, i used penals, they get owned. Mines are good,yes, but as i said, you have to be lucky...
110 ammo for germans = 2 scout car upgrade
110 ammo for soviets = 1 Guards upgrade or 3/4 mines and not flame thrower/no molotov/no At nade

@ Woof : we lacked words when we saw that. And for you nothing is wrong with the fact that basic engineer+ rush for scout car can beat engineer/M3/penals/guards?
I should get At gun at 5 min, condirering there are engineer battalion on the way? Also i was getting guards to balance my strat, and my teammate planned to go for Soviet industry

You did not understand what Woof was saying. Pio's + AC >> Penals + M3, that is the natural counter to that. Saying you had guards is not as impressive because you already went light AT and were punished for it. Also not sure why you mentioned Guards upgrade, which is AI not AT. You could have gone with 3 mines as well. Those would have been very nasty.

There is no excuse for floating more than 360 mp at the beginning of any game for a Soviet player.

Also you said you were going to rely on SI, since you saw that strat you should be thinking how might we adapt to beat this instead of continuing down a road that is not winning you a game.

Struggling badly with AC's you both need to pull guards NOW!

I'm not sure you watched the cast, i used penals, they get owned. Mines are good,yes, but as i said, you have to be lucky...
110 ammo for germans = 2 scout car upgrade
110 ammo for soviets = 1 Guards upgrade or 3/4 mines and not flame thrower/no molotov/no At nade

@ Woof : we lacked words when we saw that. And for you nothing is wrong with the fact that basic engineer+ rush for scout car can beat engineer/M3/penals/guards?
I should get At gun at 5 min, condirering there are engineer battalion on the way? Also i was getting guards to balance my strat, and my teammate planned to go for Soviet industry

if all you see is pios, its pretty likely a t2 rush is coming. the pios didnt beat you. you had them pushed all the way to the base. when you saw the 222s you panicked and didnt respond well at all. you even retreated a penal as the scout cars drove past him, allowing the cars to keep shooting you on retreat. that squad couldve easily cut off their remaining resources.

also, the guards didnt need any upgrades. they come with ptrs so you couldve put your munitions into AT nades or mines if you really wanted to. i wouldnt be upgrading flamers on my penals against pios anyway. id wait to see if they spammed pgrens, thats when you might need them.

2 t1s as soviets is typically just inviting german light vehicles. your only AT at that point is guards. if your teammate is going industry and floating 1000+ mp on top of that, its really not a very good strat at all. even if they hadnt spammed 222s, you wouldve been overrun. id suggest the industry player gets t2, i find it works a lot better with that doctrine. also, someone shouldve had atleast a couple cons.

Isnt the upgun useless if you want to use the Sdkfz vs infantry? Because as far as I know its the MG that deals all the dmg to infantry, and the MG dmg doesnt changes between the upgunned and normal version.

The 20mm gun has a scatter of 10 and an AoE of 1. So it has the same AoE and worse scatter then the SU85.

So overall you dont even need the upgun unless you want to base rape some1.

Hey guys,
Thanks for feedbacks and answers. It's obvious that our strat was unbalanced, that was exactly what we wanted to^^; As i said, i was going for guards (they don't last a long time if focused/got out of cover by another scout car.
In my opinion, the german scout car is a bit OP at the moment(for its cost and blobbed), a unit able to vaporise your base at 5min of game should'nt exist (Soviets can't do that). I'm still thinking that another build/strat wouldn't change anything.
Also both decided to spam engineer/ rush T2 before they saw our units, so they were going for that tactic anyway.

222s are a major imbalance issues in my book right now, and since the only working soviet meta involves m3s you are guaranteed to face them in pretty much every game. their counters do not work:
- ptrs guards have a limited range and take far too long to kill the thing, kiting is very easy, buttoning comes at a very high price.
- at guns rolls miss far too much, even when you hit with a zis it will survive and get away.
- mines are good but they are too much work and luck for a little reward. ost can just rebuild another one, given the extended early game it's never too late to build one
not to mention that multiple scout cars can take a guard squad heads on not giving a flying shit

M3 Guard > 222

It´s easier to kit with it and if he pushes your M3 you just need to bail out. You have more "buest" damage than the 222.

Mines are not as luck based as some of the posters in this thread would have you believe. Plant them in smart places - choke points, likely flanks, roads, etc. Then bait the opponent over it by engaging, and running backwards. Those cars are potent, but you should be able to beat them with guards/mines, or at guns.

M3 Guard > 222

It´s easier to kit with it and if he pushes your M3 you just need to bail out. You have more "buest" damage than the 222.

no shit sherlock!
too bad any decent player will fall back to his units where he won't even need to faust it cause small arms fire will pwn it

no shit sherlock!
too bad any decent player will fall back to his units where he won't even need to faust it cause small arms fire will pwn it

And then you also retreat! As i said, you have the range and burst damage to do so.