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Rifle Grenades

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2 Apr 2014, 16:36 PM
#21
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 15:38 PMNeo


Given the Maxim's arc of fire, I don't think you could credibly argue that an unsupported Maxim would be very strong if suppressed Grenadiers couldn't use rifle grenades: a Maxim is extremely vulnerable even to such a "potent" combination as 2 Pioneer squads with *minimum* micro.

The MG42 has a massive advantage as a "leave and forget" type of MG anyway.


MG-42 has a pretty slow traverse speed when it tries to rotate to the other side of its arc after the nerfs it's received.

For rifle grenades, I would say reduce the range or increase scatter, etc when suppressed, but I would also say they need a cost increase to around 30-35 munitions so they're less thrown around in every single engagements, sort of like the old Molotov(still possible, but scripts get eaten alive now).
2 Apr 2014, 17:29 PM
#22
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

After getting a couple Maxim and Mortars one shotted with the rifle grenade it feels an awful lot like the previous precision strike ability. Something needs to change to reduce this.
2 Apr 2014, 17:39 PM
#23
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

In general: abilities should seen their range decrease if they are supressed. I´m sure anyone can throw longer distances while standing up rather when proning.

Anyway, i don´t know about you guys but unless i´m watching the engagements 24/7 i can´t dodge Rnades on the same ratio that i will dodge Molotovs or other nades.
2 Apr 2014, 17:42 PM
#24
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Either reduce the range a grenade is used when suppressed, or increase its scatter to often miss when suppressed.
2 Apr 2014, 17:53 PM
#25
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

Keep the rifenade as it is. otherwise the maxim would become op fuck.
2 Apr 2014, 17:53 PM
#26
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

Imo they should do better target reading on the actual rifle nade.. and molotovs and all grenades. They can be really hard to see with the eye sometimes.. coh1 had this smoke trail on grenades... put that into coh2 would improve a lot of things.

Nerf to riflenade im all for if they would nerf the molotov insta kill crit and able to throw under suppression.
2 Apr 2014, 17:56 PM
#27
avatar of Jaigen

Posts: 1130

I think a lot of people are missing the point. For a conscript to use a molotov on an MG42, it has to run in close and due the massive arc of the MG42, there is a high chance they will get suppressed. For a grenadier to use a rifle grenade, it can still fire it far away (may still be in cover) but even if not, the arc of the Maxim is tiny and so the is a much less risk of becoming suppressed. If you stop them both using them while suppressed, the conscript will be pretty screwed where as the grenadier is all fine and dandy. If you were to introduce the suppression rule without changing the rifle grenade, it would make it even further away from the molotov than it is now.


The arc of the maxim is not tiny. the arch of the mg42 is just overkill and for the most part useless. currently oorah and molotov is sufficient to remove a mg42 from the front as the mg42 has extremely poor suppression..
2 Apr 2014, 18:00 PM
#28
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 17:56 PMJaigen


The arc of the maxim is not tiny. the arch of the mg42 is just overkill and for the most part useless. currently oorah and molotov is sufficient to remove a mg42 from the front as the mg42 has extremely poor suppression..


Comparing the arc of the Maxim vs the MG45 it is tiny.

What happesn to conscripts that are in the open running to molotov an mg if they have grenadier support. They die. What happesn to grenadiers when they are running to riflenade a maxim with conscript support, nothing because they don't need to run anywhere.

The riflenade needs its range reduced.
2 Apr 2014, 18:05 PM
#29
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 17:53 PMspajn
Imo they should do better target reading on the actual rifle nade.. and molotovs and all grenades. They can be really hard to see with the eye sometimes.. coh1 had this smoke trail on grenades... put that into coh2 would improve a lot of things.

Nerf to riflenade im all for if they would nerf the molotov insta kill crit and able to throw under suppression.


But grenades already have that....?
2 Apr 2014, 18:14 PM
#30
avatar of gary.giles71

Posts: 165

I think you are at an either or situation.
Either, when suppress no one can throw squat. Just crawl on your bellies or everyone can.
2 Apr 2014, 19:05 PM
#31
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 17:29 PMNapalm
After getting a couple Maxim and Mortars one shotted with the rifle grenade it feels an awful lot like the previous precision strike ability. Something needs to change to reduce this.


replays?
2 Apr 2014, 19:31 PM
#32
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927



But grenades already have that....?


not visable enough.. you should be able to spot the grenade in blizzard and things moving around..
Neo
2 Apr 2014, 19:36 PM
#33
avatar of Neo

Posts: 471

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 19:31 PMspajn


not visable enough.. you should be able to spot the grenade in blizzard and things moving around..


A more noticeable grenade animation doesn't help with the problem I raised initially, which is that MGs are countered by the units they're meant to counter. Rifle grenades either should be incapable of being fired by suppressed units or the range on them needs to be changed, a lot.
2 Apr 2014, 19:37 PM
#34
avatar of Zupadupadude

Posts: 618

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 19:31 PMspajn


not visable enough.. you should be able to spot the grenade in blizzard and things moving around..


I'm actually not sure how making it more visible would help. I can always see them quite easily, but maybe that's just me.
2 Apr 2014, 20:01 PM
#35
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 15:08 PMWiFiDi
slightly off topic:
imo molotov range i think needs a slight buff :)

on topic:
the trouble is when you do this you make make unsupported mgs very very strong.


There is an infantry bulletin:

Burn Baby Burn

Conscript Molotov Cocktails can be thrown 7% farther.

2 Apr 2014, 22:06 PM
#36
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
I never see a rifle grenade explosion on the foot, and the guys still alive, but this happens every time...

Im in campaing, more damage to all weapons!

Tired of Ea Games battlefield style...
2 Apr 2014, 23:57 PM
#37
avatar of Hambone

Posts: 58

I'm all for the standard CoH2 range-scaling scatter being applied to rifle grenades. Perfect shots near minimum range, but some deviation at max range.

The chance to not land a guaranteed perfect hit at max range will do a lot. It will let the german player decide to take the shot now or get a wee bit closer if able. It will be less punishing for the soviet player when cover behavior makes units clump. It will ultimately make rifle grenades less guaranteed and less munition efficient, all with minimal impact on rifle grenade performance versus buildings.

I think skilled german players would find this a more reasonable tradeoff to the flat out nerf it is probably destined to receive.
3 Apr 2014, 00:55 AM
#38
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

I'm all for the standard CoH2 range-scaling scatter being applied to rifle grenades. Perfect shots near minimum range, but some deviation at max range.

The chance to not land a guaranteed perfect hit at max range will do a lot. It will let the german player decide to take the shot now or get a wee bit closer if able. It will be less punishing for the soviet player when cover behavior makes units clump. It will ultimately make rifle grenades less guaranteed and less munition efficient, all with minimal impact on rifle grenade performance versus buildings.

I think skilled german players would find this a more reasonable tradeoff to the flat out nerf it is probably destined to receive.


lol, more RNG
Your suggestion just making riflenade useless.

Inactivate lolotov and riflenade while suppressed are fine to me.
3 Apr 2014, 05:16 AM
#39
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344



lol, more RNG
Your suggestion just making riflenade useless.

Inactivate lolotov and riflenade while suppressed are fine to me.


Since I'm working with projectile-shooting small arms for vCoH in a mod I'm working on, I'll say this--it could work, assuming the scatter isn't too drastic. It's not like we're going to be launching the grenades Schrage Musik style out of the top of the receiver of the '98 >.>
3 Apr 2014, 07:44 AM
#40
avatar of S73v0

Posts: 522

The biggest problem I have with the rifle grenade is that bug from beta where your troops shout "GRENADE!"... when the rifle grenade is already in mid air. Some more prior warning would be nice, so you can micro out of the grenade, like when the grens get on the ground to do the animation.

On the other hand it might make Russian snipers harder to counter, and the damage that the grenade do even to the face of enemy infantry is reasonable.
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