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russian armor

Is this 222 balanced (see video)?

1 Apr 2014, 20:56 PM
#21
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Nothing wrong here.

On the first scenario it "could" had died. But in a general aspect the 222 is on a fine spot. Maybe a bit on the good side, but i prefer it on this way rather being useless.

Satchel case: if only 1 bullet hit it, it should had died, unless crit with engine, another crit to heavy engine, and abandon XD.

On an unrelated note, satchels can´t 1 shot Howitzers, in case anyone wants to try. They survive with like 2% of health.
1 Apr 2014, 21:16 PM
#22
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786

it
is
not
a
fucking
tank
1 Apr 2014, 22:33 PM
#23
avatar of FestiveLongJohns
Patrion 15

Posts: 1157 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 15:49 PMAbdul
Last thread people disagreed about the soviet scout car, but I don't think we can disagree about the german scout car 221/222 being too strong. Here are 2 examples from one game showing how strong the 222 has become after the patch:



Note how the first 222 gets fired at from 2 mg bunkers and 2 panels (from the back) plus other units and still makes it out.

The second example is crazy, the 222 survives a satchel bomb. I dont know if this is rng or what?


I think its in a good spot. This patch really forces conscripts into a support role. I see people building only Penals, but then you deny yourself AT nades. I think 1-2 conscripts to protect yourself from vehicle rushes, especially if your going snipers, is still essential.
1 Apr 2014, 23:24 PM
#24
avatar of VonMecha

Posts: 419

It took a few rifle shots from 2 squads on the move, (not all entities firing), a burst from the bunker and it was near death. All without any anti tank attacks. What saved it was player micro. Turning around the bushes to get cover from fire and then retreating is why it lived.

Wow I love seeing the satchel blow up the penals. Always felt cheated when they threw it then ran right through it untouched while killing 2 to 3 squads of my army.
1 Apr 2014, 23:31 PM
#25
avatar of korgoth

Posts: 170

1st video: Scout cars should punish snipers + penal only army... 1 con with at grenades would have stop that

2nd video: Thats pretty bullshit and not because the 222 is not balanced but how vehicule crits are fucked right now... it seems that if u deal a crit with a "killing blow" u wont actually kill it but inflic the crit instead...
1 Apr 2014, 23:53 PM
#26
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

2nd video: Thats pretty bullshit and not because the 222 is not balanced but how vehicule crits are fucked right now... it seems that if u deal a crit with a "killing blow" u wont actually kill it but inflic the crit instead...


Death is a crit in this game, if the blow doesn't roll a death-crit, the unit will not die. Health only serves to determine what crits you get. Usually health damage, at very low health the crit rate increases, and at 0 health there's an extremely high chance of death crit, low chance to decrew, and low chance for any other crit.

You should have been here in CoH1 when there was small chance for no crit at 0 health, that was funny (and frustrating) stuff! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnHfG6jYjpM
2 Apr 2014, 01:58 AM
#27
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 21:16 PMtuvok
it
is
not
a
fucking
tank


is it though? in can now withstand a A/T gun shot and sponge up damage from Guards.
2 Apr 2014, 02:06 AM
#28
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

One mine can do the job easier and cleaner.
2 Apr 2014, 02:10 AM
#29
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Bank my opening game on a mine? Wonderful idea.
2 Apr 2014, 03:31 AM
#30
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 02:10 AMNapalm
Bank my opening game on a mine? Wonderful idea.


Mine can even one shot vet 3 222.
2 Apr 2014, 04:03 AM
#31
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 02:10 AMNapalm
Bank my opening game on a mine? Wonderful idea.


Well if you're not skilled enough to deal with it any other way, I guess you have to.
2 Apr 2014, 04:16 AM
#32
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

No doubt mate, no doubt.
2 Apr 2014, 04:19 AM
#33
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2014, 01:58 AMNapalm


is it though? in can now withstand a A/T gun shot and sponge up damage from Guards.


the m3 can survive an AT gun shot too...

and by "sponge" you mean survive for 4 seconds? because thats how long it takes for 2 ptrs to take it down.

and guards/zis come out before the 222, unlike the pak
2 Apr 2014, 04:28 AM
#34
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

222 can finally hunt snipers and still survive. I think 222 is balanced and its the players who can't deal with it properly, no support on units etc.
raw
2 Apr 2014, 04:48 AM
#35
avatar of raw

Posts: 644



I see people building only Penals, but then you deny yourself AT nades.


that's not a big loss, because AT nades are terrible.

- range too short
- requires cons to get out of cover and oohrah -> extra ammo cost
- german T2 can easily kite them (even oohrah)
- reflects on all vehicles where it would be sure hit (tanks)
- vs. infantry: cons die to everything

compare to guards:
- long range
- considerable damage even vs. tanks
- can lockdown
- vs infantry: are "wasting those motherfuckers"
2 Apr 2014, 05:27 AM
#36
avatar of Abdul

Posts: 896

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 16:38 PMwooof


yep. you showed a video of an m3 being played as badly as possible in your other thread. this 222 wasnt played much better, but he did actually attempt to get away. kind of hard for your unit to survive if you dont even try.


Did you read the post below from that thread?

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 05:06 AMAbdul
The M3 armor was nerfed while one of it's main targets (the pioneers) damage was increased. That is what's making the M3 underperform. The video examples illustrate this clearly.

Now without pointing fingers on anyone, saying those videos are stupid is frankly a stupid thing to say. Their purpose is to isolate the unit in a favorable or unfavorable situation and test it's ability.

To think I will use it exactly the same way in the video is wrong.






jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 16:38 PMwooof
besides, theres a reason why one is called a scout car and the other is an armored car. one can be built as your very first unit, the other takes quite a few minutes. germans have no hard counters for the m3 when it shows up, soviets can have guards and zis before the 222 hits the field. which one should be stronger?


And that is why it's cost should reflect that. As people are implying, teching costs should be reflected in the unit's cost means the M5 ht should also cost 270mp 15ful instead of 30fu, but I don't think that is right.

If you think the 221 is fine now, it's cost should be more consistent with it's ability. Right now that unit is a threat to M3, M5, and can be to t70. Plus it's a threat to most infantry units except guards. That is too good for what it costs.
2 Apr 2014, 06:01 AM
#37
avatar of DietBrownie

Posts: 308

I hate to say this, but I actually agree that the scout car is fine. The reason why they're such a pain to kill is due to AT nades range was nerfed to a useless state so you have to rely on AT-Gun (then you're stuck with useless cons), guards (other doctrines that have early AT) or mines (if youre lucky) to kill it until you can tech.

The reason why the soviet scout car isn't as effective is because grens can easily faust it since the faust's range wasn't nerfed. I think AT Nades need a range buff again, however, the at nade and ohhrah cant be used together to make it balanced.

Relic purposely wanted to make scout cars a common thing in the game but I just can't see it happening. The soviet scout car is the new bren carrier and the 222 is a worse version of the armored car.
2 Apr 2014, 06:56 AM
#38
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 807

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2014, 15:49 PMAbdul
I dont know if this is rng or what?


No, soviets just don't know how to shoot. :nahnah:
2 Apr 2014, 07:36 AM
#39
avatar of Lichtbringer

Posts: 476

I think people really underestimate the power from mines, or the bait potential of a sniper. It's so easy to kill 222s or T70s with mines, when you exactly know where they will drive first when they come out of base.
2 Apr 2014, 07:43 AM
#40
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Yeah combat engineers are very good in combat


That was sarcasm?
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