Just saw two PPsh Conscript squads getting raped by a G43 Gren squad...balance,riiiiight
They were not in cover
Posts: 807
Just saw two PPsh Conscript squads getting raped by a G43 Gren squad...balance,riiiiight
Posts: 807
Posts: 807
This exactly. Currently Soviets are far too Commander dependant, needing specific Commander call ins or upgrades to compete with the Germans by filling up their huge gaps in the counter system that shouldn't even be there in the first place. (KV-1, PPSH/Shocks, IS-2, ISU.) Germans however can 100% play without using a Commander, sure it'll be harder but it's not neccesary because everything on the base faction is more than capable of countering everything the Soviets have, even with Commanders. German commanders can also absolutely hard counter and just smash the Soviets very delicate commander choice. For example if the Soviet goes IS-2 which is needed to compete with Panthers, then the German can go for a Pak 43 and destroy the IS-2. Tigers or Tiger Ace will hard counter KV-1. Any Commander with a one click arty will counter any Howitzer play. Soviets have to be so delicate and careful with their Commander choice because not only is it needed to counter the German core units, but also can just lose the game if you don't pick the right one.
Soviets also lack any consistent AT on the base faction. The only AT for Soviets is AT guns and SU-85's which are incredibly map dependant and are unable to get killing blows because of on most maps how many choke points and shot blockers prevent any kind of chasing. Supporting AT does not work, simple as that as every single supporting AT is inconsistent and entirely unreliable. Guards button which are still Commander specific are negated by instant-popping smoke which almost all of the good and used Commanders have, AT nades are incredibly RNG dependant and just will not penetrate frontal armour enough. You can just say "Get the rear armour" all you like, but by the time you have positioned for the rear armour it means the Panther is already behind the SU-85. Mines are avoidable and often accidently explode to random tank shells unintentionally or a well placed mine that you were depending on to protect your flank gets detonated by a lone Pio squad looking to cap a point. Spamming enough mines to cover all of the flanks and prevent 1 click wonder Blitzkrieg frontal circle strafe means you have to absolutely spam mines everywhere, which makes them so likely to backfire and blow up the Soviets own vehicle if trying to bait a German vehicle into them by trying over them.
The huge issue is how hard Blitzkrieg and smoke completely breaks the dynamic and balance of tank engagements and throw out absolutely and skill, micro, tactics and positioning. Don't need to flank or bait out a tank when you can just press the Blitzkrieg button. I have lost so many games against bad players that I have winning easily until Panthers, Tigers or especially Tiger Ace pop Blitzkrieg and just right click behind my tanks. Guard Buttons ignored by smoke, AT nades don't penetrate, AT gun fires 1 shot until tank is behind Arc. Panther finally hits the mine and gets damaged engine, however damaged engine does not stop Blitzkrieg, damage engine stops the tank from activating Blitzkrieg; Meaning that a Panther with Blitzkrieg that drives over a mine or gets hit by a well executed rear armour Blitzrkieg is still moving at normal speed, because of damage engine speed x2 rather than what the damage engine speed is supposed to be. Bearing in mind how much munitions it costs for the Soviet to support the AT. After spending 100 munitions per guard squad. Button(40), button(40) again because of smoke negating the first button, AT nade(25), AT nade(25) again because the first one didn't penetrate, and several mines(30 each) and Mark Target(80) if you're lucky enough to have it. That's well over 200 munitions for every tank enagement, which doesn't even work. Once the Panther, P4 or Tiger gets the circle strafe on an SU-85 or ISU by pressing Blitzkrieg then you can't excape it, even with a damaged engine. Blitzkrieg is probably the most broken thing at the moment. Fair enough a P4 having Blitzkrieg, but the Panther, Tiger and Tiger Ace having Blitzkrieg is an absolute joke. And as a result even trying to support your tanks with anything other than mines is just a waste of time and money. It's also absurd how Blitzkreig works on reverse move so despite how out of position a tank can get so long as it has Blitzkreig and it's engine it can just pop Blitzkreig and drive away out of everything.
The best part is what do the Soviets get in exchange for the instant free flank or get out of outplayed and caught card? Well when Soviets get vet 1 they can capture points ir if they're lucky can see further! Is-2 capping points is a joke and just lazy design.
Here's a replay to support this. Showing That well prepared and supported Soviet tanks are negated and countered by pressing 3 buttons. Right click down the middle, Blitzkrieg and smoke when the button comes which is too much for Mines, Button, AT nades, kiting and refacing, AT guns, Mark Target. Bearing in mind of course that the German doesn't have to earn the Blitzkrieg on Vet1, because it can be bought with elite infantry.
http://www.coh2.org/replay/15834/pwnagemachine-vs-majorownage
Buffing the IS-2 and ISU is just the wrong path. Soviet needs more versatile and more variety of AT on the base faction, not on their commanders. FOr example Soviets need Penals with Bazookas as an upgrade and the KV-1 on the base faction, either Tier 3 or Tier 4 to give Soviets more options, dynamic and strategies.
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The Soviet losing the SU-85 means that he has no way to kill the PIV, Ostwind, Panther or Tiger from bleeding models and forcing retreats giving the Germans absolute map control. Without the SU-85 or Commander specific call ins, Soviets have no AT and no means of dealing with the German armour that forces them off the map and bleeds hard. The only other possible AT for Soviet is to plant lots of mines and hoping that the tank drives over the mine in front of an AT gun. Rarely does this actually work.
Looking at the German losing the PIV, Ostwind, Panther or Tiger means that the German has nothing to stop from the SU-85 shelling away at infantry missing 9 out of every 10 shots. The German is able to kill the SU-85 with a nice PGren with Shrek flank that can kill it in 3-4 volleys and if it gets caught by a faust it's easy pickings for the Shrek or Pak. Looking at the T-34's, T'34s actually have good anti infantry so can bleed and force off. However the difference is T-34's can and do drop to Shreks, Paks and Fausts. PIV's and anything above will not drop to AT nades and AT guns unless the German is bad, misplays and gets caught out of position or doesn't pay attention to his tanks.
Another thing to note is that Panzer Fausts will penetrate the frontal armour of a T-34 or SU-85 almost 100% of the time, where as the AT grenades with less range and requiring fuel to unlock have about a 66% chance to penetrate the front armour of a PIV or Ostwind, and a 50% chance to penetrate the Panther. Combining this with Blitzkrieg, Smoke, the higher health, armour and lower penetration of Soviet weaponry mean that controlling German armour is incredibly forgiving where as Soviet armour is insanely punishing and requires delicate and finesse micro.
Germans also have the option of going to PanzerWerfers to deal with Soviet infantry and AT guns after getting the Panther to deny the armour. So even if there are SU-85's on the field that killed a Panther the German can just ignore them by going for a heavy PGren with Shrek play or straight for Panzer Werfers. Katyushas are only on Tier4, so if the Soviet is stuck on tier 3 than Katyushas aren't an option. And it's so rare to see Katyushas anyway because Soviets need to spend all of their fuel on AT, where as Germans can spend Manpower(Paks) and Munitions(Shreks) to deal with AT keeping their fuel for other luxuries such as Panzerwerfers, Ostwinds or Brumbars for example.
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Another thing to note is that Panzer Fausts will penetrate the frontal armour of a T-34 or SU-85 almost 100% of the time, where as the AT grenades with less range and requiring fuel to unlock have about a 66% chance to penetrate the front armour of a PIV or Ostwind, and a 50% chance to penetrate the Panther.
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Permanently BannedBravus, spajn, VonMecha, how can you write such things? You don't think game is unbalanced?!?!
You are witches and you deserve to be burn on stake!! Power to the soviets!!!!!
Posts: 978
T34 needs a tiny boost to its penetration.. but most of all the silly 100% engine damage from faust and AT-nades needs to go.. T34 would be in a much better spot if it didnt get engine damage in every engagementBe glad it does only engine damage. For a weapon that could handle any tank with one hit, soviets are pretty good off with only an engine damage. I have seen Panzerfausts bouncing from the SU-85s front more than once and had to overcome the urge to ram my keyboard into the screen. THAT is silly.
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The reason why it was fine to have better German armour in Coh1 is because Americans had much superior infantry to Wehrmacht, in Coh2 Soviet and German infantry are pretty even and rather balanced in their own dynamic. Which would be fine if Germans didn't have just outright better Support Weapons and Tanks.
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Cardboard, why is it silly for a cheap infatry thrown AT weapon to sometimes not penetrate the frontal armour of whats basically a medium tank. In the realms of the game at least, thats sensible.
Besides, in real life, even shells would bounce off frontal tank armour.. so I dont see a problem? And assault guns like SU85 or Stug would have most of their armour up front.
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Tanks in CoH2 are just as good at squishing infantry, the problem is that both sides have for their basic infantry have AT weapons which cause engine damage, so the whole affair is pointless.
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The Soviet losing the SU-85 means that he has no way to kill the PIV, Ostwind, Panther or Tiger from bleeding models and forcing retreats giving the Germans absolute map control. Without the SU-85 or Commander specific call ins, Soviets have no AT and no means of dealing with the German armour that forces them off the map and bleeds hard. The only other possible AT for Soviet is to plant lots of mines and hoping that the tank drives over the mine in front of an AT gun. Rarely does this actually work.
Looking at the German losing the PIV, Ostwind, Panther or Tiger means that the German has nothing to stop from the SU-85 shelling away at infantry missing 9 out of every 10 shots. The German is able to kill the SU-85 with a nice PGren with Shrek flank that can kill it in 3-4 volleys and if it gets caught by a faust it's easy pickings for the Shrek or Pak. Looking at the T-34's, T'34s actually have good anti infantry so can bleed and force off. However the difference is T-34's can and do drop to Shreks, Paks and Fausts. PIV's and anything above will not drop to AT nades and AT guns unless the German is bad, misplays and gets caught out of position or doesn't pay attention to his tanks.
Another thing to note is that Panzer Fausts will penetrate the frontal armour of a T-34 or SU-85 almost 100% of the time, where as the AT grenades with less range and requiring fuel to unlock have about a 66% chance to penetrate the front armour of a PIV or Ostwind, and a 50% chance to penetrate the Panther. Combining this with Blitzkrieg, Smoke, the higher health, armour and lower penetration of Soviet weaponry mean that controlling German armour is incredibly forgiving where as Soviet armour is insanely punishing and requires delicate and finesse micro.
Germans also have the option of going to PanzerWerfers to deal with Soviet infantry and AT guns after getting the Panther to deny the armour. So even if there are SU-85's on the field that killed a Panther the German can just ignore them by going for a heavy PGren with Shrek play or straight for Panzer Werfers. Katyushas are only on Tier4, so if the Soviet is stuck on tier 3 than Katyushas aren't an option. And it's so rare to see Katyushas anyway because Soviets need to spend all of their fuel on AT, where as Germans can spend Manpower(Paks) and Munitions(Shreks) to deal with AT keeping their fuel for other luxuries such as Panzerwerfers, Ostwinds or Brumbars for example.
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