Is this M3 balanced (see video)?

The M3 armor was nerfed while one of it's main targets (the pioneers) damage was increased. That is what's making the M3 underperform. The video examples illustrate this clearly.

Now without pointing fingers on anyone, saying those videos are stupid is frankly a stupid thing to say. Their purpose is to isolate the unit in a favorable or unfavorable situation and test it's ability.

To think I will use it exactly the same way in the video is wrong.

That is exactly the problem there. The whole system was changed, but you seem to have not adapted. Pios might've been a primary target for a M3 in the old one, but I wouldn't say they are anymore. Also Pioneers are a combat unit now, not 'just' a builder. You can still fight Pioneers, but only on range.
Pio DPS with 100% accuracy:
08 15.435
15: 7.900
30: 2.726

As you can see there is a huge difference in DPS even at range. Full auto units shoot smaller bursts and slower at range, not only with less accuracy. If they are moving the bursts tend to get even smaller.

Great targets for M3 currently are Grens at all ranges. Close range will get you fausted usually, but depending on the situation that is often not bad. Pios on long range work good as well. PGrens are okay - they will deal a lot of dmg, but also bleed quickly. Snipers are easier to kill than ever.

Besides Pios in close range, LMG42 Grens are a dangerous prey due to their higher penetration. I think the biggest problem with the M3 currently is that people drive close. Keep it more on range and only swoop in to finish off, to make him faust you or to push him out of cover if you must. I think it might need some minor buffs and I would like it rear armor to be the same as the frontal one (since it's non turreted and the autorotation is sometimes annoying as hell), but besides that I do not see much problems with the M3 itself, but more with the 222 which is too strong atm in my opinion.

This is clearly a unit used wrong as pointed out in several posts in this thread. Use it to kite, it does dish out decent damage. If you want to get in close, chose a target such as an mg or mortar. It is also a reliable way to carry troops, all from guards (garrisoned they are quite fun) pios (flamers, demo charges) and penals (satchel, flame throwers). This vehicle is exxtremely versatile when it comes to capping, blowing stuff up, dislodging mgs or mortars, chasing snipers, placing forward mines. Use it's strengths, there are many.

Why getting your scout car up close to units armed with MP40's if you don't have to? Stay at at least SOME range and they have no chance whatsoever. The video is silly, use some common sense. Pios are close range units = don't get in close. Dammit.

Why getting your scout car up close to units armed with MP40's if you don't have to? Stay at at least SOME range and they have no chance whatsoever. The video is silly, use some common sense. Pios are close range units = don't get in close. Dammit.

Well from the beginning of coh2 it was used as a iron man flamer suit. That is what was attempted in the video. Now it's an actual early tier unit instead of a t3ish strength unit. I don't think people have had enough time to figure out the meta.

I'd say that apart from some abusive M3 spam tactics, the M3 is a total piece of garbage.

Unlike the 222, it's easily damaged by small arms fire. Unlike the 222 it can not effectively flank units in cover. Unlike the 222, the Germans actually have a unit that both hard-counters it and is able to chase it.

It's saving grace pre-patch was the fact that it was cheap and could be loaded with snipers. Pre-patch, germans also made a lot more use of MG42s, giving you a nice target to try and do a drive-by kraut roast. Now all they do is gren-spam with some pioneers, which the scout car doesn't do a whole lot against (it's DPS against units in cover is laughable and it ends up getting out-shot by grenadiers, it dies when it tries to get close). The german scout car was easier to hold at bay because it actually took some damage from small arms fire.

I have found absolutely no reason to incorporate a scout car when going for a T1 build that is not a scout car spam.

I went Grenadier heavy before it was cool :c

I was sick of my MG 42's getting Ooralotov'd from the front, so I just went Grens > T2.


I guess everyone started to realise they could have a unit that doesn't get molo'd to death every encounter, and can walk around capping.

Gren spam was always "cool".

While you are kiting with your M3, if your in a pretty solid position, it can be a nice tacitc to allow some grens to faust you just as you are backing out of range and you know they have no other threats and your engies near by. Its an easy way to drain some important Ost munis.

Why getting your scout car up close to units armed with MP40's if you don't have to? Stay at at least SOME range and they have no chance whatsoever. The video is silly, use some common sense. Pios are close range units = don't get in close. Dammit.

You're right but... http://i.imgur.com/n6zXyG9.jpg

You're right but... http://i.imgur.com/n6zXyG9.jpg

There's nothing really wrong about Pioneers. I like the fact they can actually do damage if you're in near hugging distance rather than a slight chipping of health they did prior. They're still squishy, have to close the distance to be effective and are rather expensive to reinforce at 25.

Only thing the M3 needs is a minor armour boost or slightly more DPS(or something that makes it somewhat better vs units in cover) or a minor decrease in MP.

Just wanted to clarify a few facts.

As Cruzz noted the accuracy of the Pioneers at most ranges is over 100%. However, accuracy isn't the only variable which factors into the DPS if a squad, rate of fire in this scenario is more important. The ROF at max range on a MP40 is extremely low, resulting in fairly weak DPS.

As another poster noted, most German have seen their armour reduced. The M3 used to fight infantry with 1.5 armour resulting in reduced damage output. In the current build, the M3 is 50% more effective vs Grenadiers as an example.

You don't necessarily need to garrison the M3, I find them great at flanking due to their speed and using their top gunner to deal damage to German infantry. At 5.4 armour, there is only a 18.5% chance of a shot penetrating the M3. Additionally, it can also absorb a AT gun shot now, I would definitely say it's been buffed.

Why would the accuracy of pioneers over most ranges be over 100%.... wtf lmao

keep charging the pios you are going to lose/die, no matter how much you whine/complain/argue.

Why the hell would the accuracy of pioneers over most ranges be over 100%.... wtf stupid lmao

well youre taking it out of context. hes talking about when theyre shooting an m3. thats just how accuracy works in coh2. all small arms will have over 100% accuracy against vehicles due to target size.

Ahh Ic so complicated, but thats what makes Company of Heroes great right? The m3 really needs a nice buff imo especially considering how easy it is rolled by 221 at 220 or is it 240 manpower? Your basically completely throwing the manpower away its not in the least right imo.

I think the big reason it takes so much damage is to prevent pushing units out of cover. This was a hug problem with the jeep in coh 1.

One thing I hate though is taking small arms fire and then getting rifle naded. At least with the Faust you can break line of sight to survive. Rifle naded spam really hurts it especially with no animation to warn you.

Ahh Ic so complicated, but thats what makes Company of Heroes great right? The m3 really needs a nice buff imo especially considering how easy it is rolled by 221 at 220 or is it 240 manpower? Your basically completely throwing the manpower away its not in the least right imo.

This does not make any sense to me.

Basically, the M3 has a "free" reign until the AC comes out. If you kite and don't make mistakes, M3 will will definatly survive. Now the teching and build cost PLUS the 55 munitions upgrade will always justify the AC beating an M3, and if you have happened to use a commander with guards in it, the superiority of the AC is also negated, depending on how you use them... or am I seeing this wrong?

Rifle Grenade does have an animation though, it's even longer than the Faust animation. You just don't notice it as easily because the Faust is big and tan, while the Rifle Grenade is just him kneeling down, planting the rifle on the ground, and aiming into the air.

This does not make any sense to me.

Basically, the M3 has a "free" reign until the AC comes out. If you kite and don't make mistakes, M3 will will definatly survive. Now the teching and build cost PLUS the 55 munitions upgrade will always justify the AC beating an M3, and if you have happened to use a commander with guards in it, the superiority of the AC is also negated, depending on how you use them... or am I seeing this wrong?

+1

I wanted m3 buffed but it's unreasonable because osteers have no hard counter to it until tier 2 and sov can pump it out before the first minute mark. Just try to get it to vet 2 or 3 and use it as scout unit in mid-late game and as an attack unit when you see gaps.

when relic said they wanted to keep light vehicles relevant throughout the mid-late game, they were really talking about the sdkfz 222.

How is a panzer Faust followed by rifle nade a millisecond later not a hard counter. You cannot drive away fast enough to get out of range of the nade if you get hit by the Faust. You need only one squad to pull this off it takes less than a second. It takes one bad pathing calculation by the unit to lose it. 230 mp plus unit inside gone in a fraction of second.

If you abandon the vehicle the rifle nade still kills your squad as they lose health from the Faust and group up when exiting which gets them wiped. 500 mp or so gone to long range weapons in a second. This cripples a soviet player.

So much risk for unit that deals such low damage at long range. Yet gets killed so easily at long range.

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet or not.

M3A1 Armored Car frontal armor 5.4
222 Scout car REAR armor 5.4

M3A1 Armored Car cost: 230MP/5FU
222 Scout Car cost 240MP, 10fu.


I smell something really bad here.