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russian armor

THE PROBLEM WITH THE COVER SYSTEM

27 Mar 2014, 14:57 PM
#21
avatar of tokarev

Posts: 307

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 14:20 PMAradan


Cons can build green cover. You need start use it.


Not under fire though.
And this threat is all about current cover being too small for six-men squads. Or about not having any cover at all on some open maps. Both of this concerns nullify the whole idea of the patch.
27 Mar 2014, 15:03 PM
#22
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 14:57 PMtokarev


Not under fire though.


Well, actually, building sandbags does not incur the usual repair/building received damage penalty. So you can technically build it under fire.
27 Mar 2014, 15:47 PM
#23
avatar of ferrozoica

Posts: 208

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 13:57 PMInverse
Squad sizes in CoH2 are the same as in vCoH, and the cover system in vCoH was perfectly fine. Bad argument.

Also, all caps makes you sound like a moron.



+1


The fact of the matter is that Cons are just not designed to kill things. They are cheap, fragile infantry used for supporting/distracting and maybe the occasional flank.

The days of Consspam are over :banana:
27 Mar 2014, 15:50 PM
#24
avatar of buckers

Posts: 230




+1


The fact of the matter is that Cons are just not designed to kill things. They are cheap, fragile infantry used for supporting/distracting and maybe the occasional flank.

The days of Consspam are over :banana:


cheap is not a viable reason, they cost the same as grens, yet grens are significantly better

(it also costs more MP to reinforce them to full than grens)

so what you're really telling me is you've never played sovjet in this patch. because you'd know that the relationship between soviets and conscripts is the same as americans and riflemen
27 Mar 2014, 15:52 PM
#25
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Keep cons the same. Lower price to Pre patch Ostruppen. Deal?
27 Mar 2014, 16:11 PM
#26
avatar of buckers

Posts: 230

Keep cons the same. Lower price to Pre patch Ostruppen. Deal?


they do too much damage to justify that low of a cost. cons are not the problem. it's that grens are too effective at killing them.


27 Mar 2014, 16:16 PM
#27
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

I know I was only half serious. Just to illustrate the sillyness of the new infantry effectiveness. Ferrozoica seems to think that Cons arent meant to fight.
27 Mar 2014, 16:21 PM
#28
avatar of PingPing

Posts: 329

Buckers +1 to your ninja btw - the more this becomes vCOH 1.5 and less COH2 the better this game will be.
27 Mar 2014, 16:22 PM
#29
avatar of buckers

Posts: 230

I know I was only half serious. Just to illustrate the sillyness of the new infantry effectiveness. Ferrozoica seems to think that Cons arent meant to fight.


this forum is full of fanboys. there should be a forum that you're only allowed into after a admin checks your coh2 ladder patch for full-retard fanboyism. relic should then go there when they check out coh2.org for balance suggestions
27 Mar 2014, 18:29 PM
#30
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
This is a looser thread...

Take off the map objects! lol
27 Mar 2014, 18:32 PM
#31
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

You can get 99% to 100% of 4 Grens in cover, that would be 3,96 to 4 entities. For Cons you can only get 25% to 45% of 6, so 1.5 to 2.7 entities.


get out of here with your maths and fancy logic. it doesnt belong here. this is a place for angry emotional posts.
27 Mar 2014, 19:59 PM
#32
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

Bucker's "tone" in all of his posts makes me not want to read anything he writes. Venomous and childishly rage-filled.
27 Mar 2014, 20:29 PM
#33
avatar of Aurgelwulf

Posts: 184

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 18:32 PMwooof


get out of here with your maths and fancy logic. it doesnt belong here. this is a place for angry emotional posts.


All he did was quote made up numbers o_O
27 Mar 2014, 20:41 PM
#34
avatar of ferrozoica

Posts: 208

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 15:50 PMbuckers


cheap is not a viable reason, they cost the same as grens, yet grens are significantly better

(it also costs more MP to reinforce them to full than grens)

so what you're really telling me is you've never played sovjet in this patch. because you'd know that the relationship between soviets and conscripts is the same as americans and riflemen



I have lost 1 game out of 10 so far this patch and no I don't use cons to kill things ^_^
27 Mar 2014, 20:51 PM
#35
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1



All he did was quote made up numbers o_O


Eror 604: Sarcasm not detected.
28 Mar 2014, 00:53 AM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

How you dare not using italics to mark that you are making an sarcastic comment!

Is it possible to extend a bit the range on which cover is being used?
28 Mar 2014, 01:07 AM
#37
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Mar 2014, 14:04 PMbuckers


this has nothing to do with the cover system in vcoh

the fact of the matter is sometimes they just don't take cover, or they run out in the open sometimes randomly. or they get stuck along the way on light cover when you put them in nearby heavy cover.

it's less of a problem on grens because their smaller squadsize leaves less room for error.

it's only a problem now because cover actually means something

that's all i was getting at, sorry if i didn't get my point across the in the OP


If only Grenadiers would just shoot at the members out in the open instead of the ones in cover, oh wait, you can't control that either. Both Grenadier and Conscripts jump around like they have snakes their boots. Besides there are advantages of having larger squad sizes like a less chance to be wiped out by a single mortar or mine which Soviets have plenty of one hit wonders.
28 Mar 2014, 02:33 AM
#38
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

There are problems with cover though that need to be addressed (man feels like I'm talking about CoH1 again). Check out this video, and observe how the Shock Troops, when ordered into cover, 4/5 Shock Troops run infront of the cover and get slaughtered by the Panzergrenadiers.

Promoting macro and cover usage is good, but bad AI is not excusable, it's game-breaking. Those Shocks completely threw the fight by running in-front of cover and dying. If they had gone to cover like they were supposed to, they would have won.
Only Relic postRelic 28 Mar 2014, 04:31 AM
#39
avatar of pqumsieh
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 267 | Subs: 8

Cover volumes are intentionally larger to resolve this issue. If you were to open the debug cover view, you would see that its fairly easy to position your infantry in cover given the size of the cover volume. It is exactly the same size as it was in COH1 for reference.
28 Mar 2014, 05:01 AM
#40
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

I think the real, noticeable problem here is that during combat, units like to move around and get out of cover and get themselves killed. Infantry automatically reposition themselves so they can fire better, but they end up getting killed in the process. This goes for all infantry on both sides. It is relatively more predominant when trying to use cover with panzergrenadiers and shocks especially. Even if you put them behind a wall, as close range fighting units, they feel the need to run in front of the wall to fire better, and it gets themselves killed. An ai fix to make infantry not so jumpy would be appreciated. Lots of models die for stupid reasons like this. DPS just goes down the drain.
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