Aftermath Update Impressions Thread
19 Feb 2014, 19:23 PM
#101
Posts: 915
Lol I love how people say this forums is pro axis and pro soviet. So much talking out of your ass and nubs discussing balance.
19 Feb 2014, 19:25 PM
#102
Posts: 329
Lol I love how people say this forums is pro axis and pro soviet. So much talking out of your ass and nubs discussing balance.
Care to elaborate?
Right now there's significant issues with abilities and spaming of, sure many are talking about two of the obvious here - sniper spam and weak counters to it.
But lets not be blind to the fact Soviet still have relatively poor AT infantry and German tanks are still significantly OP in the late game too.
The balance is a work in progress.
Personally I'm concerned in the discussion on the HT/Quad being it was a unit that I think most would say was just fine as it was - seems they like to break things that work and ignore the things that are already broken.
19 Feb 2014, 19:29 PM
#103
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
notice he said it can SUPPORT a defense against a t70. it obviously cant solo it. the 222 has a 63% chance to pen the front, or 100% from the back, so it can do some pretty good damage against the t70. also, since it shoots 5-7 shots in a 2.5 second burst, the t70 will barely take 2 shots in that time. so if you can get behind it, you could take about 1/3 of the t70s hp for 1/2 of the 222s hp.
19 Feb 2014, 19:35 PM
#104
Posts: 184
notice he said it can SUPPORT a defense against a t70. it obviously cant solo it. the 222 has a 63% chance to pen the front, or 100% from the back, so it can do some pretty good damage against the t70. also, since it shoots 5-7 shots in a 2.5 second burst, the t70 will barely take 2 shots in that time. so if you can get behind it, you could take about 1/3 of the t70s hp for 1/2 of the 222s hp.
My issue is that he said it was 'ideal' for such a role. It is not.
19 Feb 2014, 19:45 PM
#105
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I think he means that the 222 can be used to basically finish off a wounded T70 or force it back in combo with other units. It really can't since bad pathing combined with weak armor means this unit cannot afford to try to sneak in and sneak out. How many times have I seen 222's spin in circles until they blow up?
Hunting downs kats...I have never seen that work. Doesn't everyone put their kats behind their su85's? And if I have kats I also went guards, so...
I appreciate that Relic may want that (scout, deep strike unit) to be the role of the 222 and I understand why they "nerfed" it in this patch, but it still does not fill any role right now.
Hunting downs kats...I have never seen that work. Doesn't everyone put their kats behind their su85's? And if I have kats I also went guards, so...
I appreciate that Relic may want that (scout, deep strike unit) to be the role of the 222 and I understand why they "nerfed" it in this patch, but it still does not fill any role right now.
19 Feb 2014, 19:52 PM
#106
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
Hunting downs kats...I have never seen that work. Doesn't everyone put their kats behind their su85's? And if I have kats I also went guards, so...
really? this was incredibly easy to do. no one ever said the 222 has to get out alive
you just find a hole in the defense and sneak over to the kats. sometimes you get unlucky and run into cons/guards, but for the price, its worth the risk.
ill admit this will be harder to do now though since a single 2.5 second burst will no longer kill a katyusha. now youll have to keep the 222 near the kat for the 4 second cooldown + part of the 2nd burst. the same goes for killing m3s.
19 Feb 2014, 19:56 PM
#107
Posts: 184
I'm being a little hard on pqumsieh, especially since he asked for patience and trust, so I apologise for that.
It's frustrating seeing a unit that once had a role in the game be reduced to nothing and then nerfed even further.
It's frustrating seeing a unit that once had a role in the game be reduced to nothing and then nerfed even further.
19 Feb 2014, 19:57 PM
#108
Posts: 307
Look that balance, get better, but not the ideal, conscripts assault package 10 mun (with 6 smg's) (lol!!!!!!) now is 30 with 3, but for grens get 2 rifle or 1 lmg is 60 mun....
How high were you when you saw 6 ppsh upgrade for 10 muni???
Vae Victis!
19 Feb 2014, 19:58 PM
#109
Posts: 329
really? this was incredibly easy to do. no one ever said the 222 has to get out alive
you just find a hole in the defense and sneak over to the kats. sometimes you get unlucky and run into cons/guards, but for the price, its worth the risk.
ill admit this will be harder to do now though since a single 2.5 second burst will no longer kill a katyusha. now youll have to keep the 222 near the kat for the 4 second cooldown + part of the 2nd burst. the same goes for killing m3s.
If you're at a point in the game where your opponent is building Kat's - building a 222 is probably the last thing you're going to do.
Most would get a P4 up with the tech available at that time and make a push.
And given by that time there's either guards or AT naded conscripts - the chances of that 222 given its poor speed and even worse pathing....yeah - I can't see that happening.
Right now the unit has no purpose - it can't counter T2 as it's role requires it to given the sake its "fragile".
I simply don't understand why there's no T1 mobile vehicle that serves the scout/jeep/motorbike role.
Also - why on earth can a jeep - programed in 2005 have better pathing than the units in today's 2013/14 "AAA" "RTS game of the year"??
19 Feb 2014, 20:13 PM
#110
Posts: 879
Yes, that's exactly what you'd do. It's insanely cheap, if you know where the katy is, it's going to be worth sacrificing the 222 to zip around around back, even into their base, and kill a Katyusha. It kills them almost instantly.
19 Feb 2014, 20:19 PM
#111
Posts: 24
adjusting patch, but I'am sad about one of my favorit commander: Armored Assault Tactics. He takes a big nerf T34/85, IS2, IL2 strafe.
I will see that in game...
I will see that in game...
19 Feb 2014, 20:23 PM
#112
Posts: 329
Yes, that's exactly what you'd do. It's insanely cheap, if you know where the katy is, it's going to be worth sacrificing the 222 to zip around around back, even into their base, and kill a Katyusha. It kills them almost instantly.
And you think it'd make it?
Also - just one Con with an AT nade near that Kat and your 222 is toast.
19 Feb 2014, 20:30 PM
#113
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
And you think it'd make it?
Also - just one Con with an AT nade near that Kat and your 222 is toast.
considering my friends and i do it quite often, and im sure noise has as well, the answer is yes, the 222 will make it. he most likely wont get out alive, but thats a very good trade for the germans.
im not sure what makes you think a p4 push will be more successful than a 222. the p4 is slower, a lot more obvious, and much more expensive, so its riskier. the soviet will just reverse his kat into his base when he sees a p4 trying to hunt it down. then you run into cons/guards and you have 115 fuel stuck behind enemy lines
19 Feb 2014, 20:34 PM
#114
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
ppsh spam: more powerful than it has ever been since the HTD nerf, and now shows that power with or without HTD. So much fun to play against combined conscripts with all your inferior units as germans again while trying desperately to get a vehicle out.
new soviet commander: radio intercept, ppsh, a callin tank and strafe. lol.
PG sounds: I guess they all have suppressors now. Really annoying for bad players like me who rely on audio cues a lot of the time.
Sniper autofire from camo: still not fixed
IL2 Strafe: to be honest I don't see any real difference in their lethality, they just take a second or two longer to kill a squad but they still kill one extremely reliably every pass, from both standing still, on the move and from the retreat. And they cost 60 muni less now.
Map vetoes: keep bugging out
Battle servers: constant error messages when starting game, pretty laggy games for europeans
new soviet commander: radio intercept, ppsh, a callin tank and strafe. lol.
PG sounds: I guess they all have suppressors now. Really annoying for bad players like me who rely on audio cues a lot of the time.
Sniper autofire from camo: still not fixed
IL2 Strafe: to be honest I don't see any real difference in their lethality, they just take a second or two longer to kill a squad but they still kill one extremely reliably every pass, from both standing still, on the move and from the retreat. And they cost 60 muni less now.
Map vetoes: keep bugging out
Battle servers: constant error messages when starting game, pretty laggy games for europeans
19 Feb 2014, 20:36 PM
#115
Posts: 134
Just a few points to hopefully clarify the intents behind some of the changes.
First, commanders are not meant to overshadow the core army or its tech. They were designed to supplement the player's army rather than define it.
Isn't the soviet faction a fail then? Theyve been much more heavily defined by the calls than the axis have from the beginning. It honestly felt like it was designed as such. If the goal is to now have callins not define the army then soviets need some major fixes (for example something akin to the pgrens which are available to everyone and can to some extent fill the guard or shock role so that the definiton is removed from the commander choice)
I think its a pretty common conception thst axis are well rounded in their basic units and as such arnt relying on (and dont have as many) callins whereas soviet gameplay is heavily shaped by what callins you use (aka defining the playstyle) because the basic units arnt as "complete" as the Germans.
Not trying to be overly critical cause the game is a blast and the devs don't get enough pats on the back. Just trying to understand better.
19 Feb 2014, 20:37 PM
#116
4 Posts: 182
this is a great patch relic, thank you very much,you guys are doing a great job ,keep up the good work and also thank you noun
and also thank you noun
19 Feb 2014, 20:39 PM
#117
Posts: 329
considering my friends and i do it quite often, and im sure noise has as well, the answer is yes, the 222 will make it. he most likely wont get out alive, but thats a very good trade for the germans.
im not sure what makes you think a p4 push will be more successful than a 222. the p4 is slower, a lot more obvious, and much more expensive, so its riskier. the soviet will just reverse his kat into his base when he sees a p4 trying to hunt it down. then you run into cons/guards and you have 115 fuel stuck behind enemy lines
I have to say it's impressive if you can pull that off.
BUT
If that's the only purpose a 222 can do - i.e. a counter to an equally poorly pathed - yet T4 unit - and the 222 is a T2 that SHOULD be able to counter T1/T2 units rather than just a niche T4 counter....I call that a pretty much useless unit.
19 Feb 2014, 20:43 PM
#118
Posts: 134
I have to say it's impressive if you can pull that off.
BUT
If that's the only purpose a 222 can do - i.e. a counter to an equally poorly pathed - yet T4 unit - and the 222 is a T2 that SHOULD be able to counter T1/T2 units rather than just a niche T4 counter....I call that a pretty much useless unit.
Weather they have a prescribed purpose or not up gunned armored cars are one of my favorite units to play with (and if micro'd well can easily do more damage than they cost). I love them
19 Feb 2014, 20:47 PM
#119
Posts: 879
[NVM]
19 Feb 2014, 20:52 PM
#120
Posts: 157
ppsh spam: more powerful than it has ever been since the HTD nerf, and now shows that power with or without HTD. So much fun to play against combined conscripts with all your inferior units as germans again while trying desperately to get a vehicle out.
They come in at 3CP, the same time or even after PGs and vehicular counters hits the field. They're only an issue if you fight them head on with a vanilla Gren unit. They're like Penals, but more lethal close range as opposed to far range.
Still skeptical about the 222 nerf, they weren't that big of an issue on either side, I loved and feared the FHT more attacking or being attacked with infantry.
More and more I play with T34/85 commanders...i'm even more [overzealously] convinced 9CP is way too late. Had several matches where I see multiple stugs, or ostwinds, or p4s hit the field 5min+ earlier before a T34/85 hits the field. Coupled with the long recharge time, you're forced build T3 or T4 to have any armored presence on the field. Should be 8CP like the KV1.
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