A balance thought for Soviet tiers

While such a change is unlikely, I can't help but continue to think that this idea would be a far better way for the Soviets to tech than what we have currently. So, I just wanted to share and get it out there.

T1: unchanged
T2: unchanged
T3: Move SU76 to T3; reduce fuel and manpower cost of T3 building.
T4: Move T34 to T4; increase man and fuel cost of T4 building.

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I'm not sure what the sweet spot for pricing T3 and T4 would be after such a change, but it seems to me that some of the issues with soviets in their mid game could be remedied by such a change. T3 becomes a mechanized assault tier, and provides an earlier M5 and T70, while the SU76 enters as a spam-able form of light-medium AT and artillery. On the other hand, the T4 building becomes a slightly more expensive but far heavier "total war" tier. It provides that final push by giving armor and heavy AT with a nice dash of rocket trucks.

In light of such a change, I would also argue in favor of a slight buff in the SU76's AT abilities (100 pen 90 dam might be enough), but overall, even a simple swap of the two units between their respective buildings could help to provide more dynamic teching options for the Soviets.

Thoughts?

EDIT: So some folks have suggested swapping the SU76 and the T70 between the tiers. I still like my original idea, but I like this idea a little more. It accomplishes the same goal of increasing the synergy of the vehicles available for T3 and T4 while avoiding the balance concerns my original idea created. It's unlikely that Relic will make the change, but it is a good idea nonetheless.

And T3 was never seen again.

And T3 was never seen again.

How so? I would be inclined to build T3 in many cases. It would be cheaper, easier to get a T70 out with a lower building cost, and the SU76 would come early enough to actually be worth a damn. T3 would become a superior building for Guards Motor, Armored Assault, and Soviet industry.

Not a good idea...I don't even know where to start and how to explain why. Just a horrible idea

Not a good idea...I don't even know where to start and how to explain why. Just a horrible idea

How is a faster M5 or a faster T70 or a faster SU76 a horrible idea? I know it's an unlikely change at this point in the game's release, but I'm not convinced such a change would be so terrible. Also, T3 would be a superior option for commanders like Guards Motor, Armored Assault, and Soviet industry.

If you moved T34 to T4 then T3 would have no reliable AT. SU-76 is not a counter to German T3, unless you buffed it extremely hard. And this would further funnel Soviets into less tech choices. If they had any tanks you would have to go T4, as T70s and SU-76s can both be rushed to death by P4s.

I agree that the SU76 would require a buff, but it needs a buff as it is. The SU76 coming earlier with a reduced T3 cost, or a faster M5 or a faster T70 could be pretty useful.

fast t70 would be a nightmare

This change accomplishes two things. It makes a T70 rush come that much faster, and it makes T3 a choice that will NEVER be made if soviets don't want to rush with T70.

And T3 was never seen again.

xDDDDDDDD

If you really want this you should move the at-gun to T3 and the M5 to T2.
I don't see how this would improve the game though. T4 will be super strong.

the combination or t34s and su85s do i even need to reiterate how scary a combo that is.

while it would increase the viablity of the the su76 i think it would make teir 4 way to good.

How about this:

Exchange SU-76 with the Halftrack.

As someone who always goes T4, I miss the halftrack so much.......It is my least used unit and the suppression/reinforcement would be very useful to compensate for the SU-85's poor AI.

If I go T3, then the SU-76 can help support the T-34/76 in long range pea shooting..

How about this:

Exchange SU-76 with the Halftrack.

As someone who always goes T4, I miss the halftrack so much.......It is my least used unit and the suppression/reinforcement would be very useful to compensate for the SU-85's poor AI.

If I go T3, then the SU-76 can help support the T-34/76 in long range pea shooting..

hmm... I actually really like this idea

How about this:

Exchange SU-76 with the Halftrack.

As someone who always goes T4, I miss the halftrack so much.......It is my least used unit and the suppression/reinforcement would be very useful to compensate for the SU-85's poor AI.

If I go T3, then the SU-76 can help support the T-34/76 in long range pea shooting..

I always thought it would be better to switch the SU-76 with the T-70 since the T-70 has so much overlap with the t34 and if the T-70s were with su-85s and katyusha it would actually have something to scout for.

That could work too.

My intent for this is to buff t3's AT abilities and give T4 better AI.

SU-85s are very vulnerable to panzershrecks/panzerfaust flanking.

I always thought it would be better to switch the SU-76 with the T-70 since the T-70 has so much overlap with the t34 and if the T-70s were with su-85s and katyusha it would actually have something to scout for.

yea someone else said the same thing an interesting idea but it certainly means that wha tpeople will think of teir 3 and 4 will change drastically i feel.

I sense we just need a few more units for Soviet maybe...? Maybe I'm wrong but do Germans have more unit variety than Soviets...?

I sense we just need a few more units for Soviet maybe...? Maybe I'm wrong but do Germans have more unit variety than Soviets...?

Soviets have plenty of units especially if you count the doctrinal stuff. The thing is germans always have units in their tiers that can handle every situation, while the soviets tiers have units that have a lot of overlap and don't complement each other well. It's worse when you consider that soviets are a lot less flexible then the germans. There is really nothing that a T70 can do that a T34 can't do as well or better.

This really is the crux of the issue and my inspiration behind the original post. Swapping the T70 for the SU76 might be a less risky move than swapping the SU76 and T34. Either way, the point is that the tiers seem redundant instead of synergistic. It's all about mixing it up to remove/lessen the redundancy of units available in the different tiers.