Sniper in Scout Car

This isn't about Guards, stop trying to make it about Guards, that's a completely different issue. This is about Snipers in Scout Cars.

Then use upgunned AC and make a long flank.
What stops you?
Conscripts that you can outrun?

Can you please provide us with your stats Katitof? Becouse you sounds to me like an ultimate pro-top player. You have no problems with taking out soviets SC with your own upgunned AC.

Sadly good soviet player will always have conscript with at grenade nearby. Most of the time 1 at grenade is enough to take out 3/4 of the AC, then you can easily finish it with small arms fire. Hell, after i put at grenade on AC i usually send my soviet SC to finish AC, and AC have literally 0% chances to make dmg when he is focused on conscripts.

Some people say that Snip + SC is devastating only with guards, well i dont agree, guards is not smt you must have since you can rely on conscripts at grenades which are very powerful against ost t2 vehicles.

Clown car is pretty hilarious, i dont like this whole concept yet i'am using it, becouse problem is i dont like t2 play with soviets so i'am forced to use t1 and eventually sniper + sc combo. But it definetly needs some kind of nerf, or maybe some small buff for ost t2 vehicles. Especially AC which is garbage in current state.

And btw Katitof feel free to play with me whenever you wants i would like to see that long AC flank vs my clown car. You can pm me or send message on steam. I would really like to see your pro micro play with AC vs cons with at grenades.

And I wont use guards, I promise, simply becouse i dont have to.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198007736708

Here you can find his Playercard.
Katitoff:
http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198009261973

He has good stats but he is mostly a Russian player.

I told him to add me to play with or vs him, so he can demonstrate me his great counter vs snipers. He did not add me yet (and I think he will not). Btw he says that use a commander (lighting war, not a FREE COMMANDER) with G43 and Tiger tank on it to counter that strat. I agree that G43 works great but the vanilla G43 commanders sux at the late game. That's why is not a real counter for me.

OMG

I have no idea why i was producing myself.

Katitof is an ultimate troll, he is not having a SLICE idea what an 1v1 soviet sc with sniper is. How can he have it when, he played 12 1vs1 games TOTALLY, with both factions. This is just pathetic...
Why he is even talking abaout balance in this thread? Only to troll?
I know this kind of "theoretical masters". Seriously, whats the point, hes not playing the game, at least not 1vs1 and he is talking about balance?!

edit: too hasty on commenting

OMG

I have no idea why i was producing myself.

Katitof is an ultimate troll, he is not having a SLICE idea what an 1v1 soviet sc with sniper is. How can he have it when, he played 12 1vs1 games TOTALLY, with both factions. This is just pathetic...
Why he is even talking abaout balance in this thread? Only to troll?
I know this kind of "theoretical masters". Seriously, whats the point, hes not playing the game, at least not 1vs1 and he is talking about balance?!

I play with him and against him a lot and the stuff he talks about he talks from experience what you can't say about half of the community here and on the official forum. He keeps his friend list private, what I do as well and I understand he doesn't want to have random people in it.
He's a good player. Not a pro one, but at least he tryes to focus on working on strategies instead on whining and crying on forums.
He plays both factions and if you would like to see some of his games Art3ch casted quite a few so you can go UTube and see for yourself.

This isn't about Guards, stop trying to make it about Guards, that's a completely different issue. This is about Snipers in Scout Cars.

What is supposed to counter a m3 and/or a sniper?
A 222.

What cant survive at all if a guard squad is present?
A 222.

But point is you dont need to go guards to insta-kill AC, 1 at grenade is doing fine, how are you supposed to approach clown car with your 222, when there is plenty of conscripts nearby? Small mistake in micro, or bad pathifinding and you will get oorah conscripts on your AC ass. Thats the problem. Moving guards to 2cp or even 3cp wont solve it. People will just use at grenades which are good enough, not to mention the soviet SC overdrive skill, FREE one... that is, well, pretty dumb.

@OZtheWiZARD
Yea, you may be right. But dont you think, that when you have 12 games in 1v1 mode, you should not be so sure about your opinions? Becouse Katitof sound like it was so simple, and so obvious.

"Then use upgunned AC and make a long flank.
What stops you?
Conscripts that you can outrun?"

And lets be honest... Thats NOT a good counter versus skilled soviet player.

That's true Walther, but in my oppinion, a player with 2v2 games experience can talk about balance too. I agree with you that AT nade is a hard counter to 222 (and you don't need Guards). I think, Ooray ability should have a penalization after the ooray it's done (same as Rangers in COh1).
I still don't have a good counter based on skill to counter that snipers, just waiting for the russian player to make a mistake.

Yea, right, my comment was too harsh and inappropriate, his 2vs2 stats seems fair enough. So i apologize for it.

Still i dont think that this particural problem in 1vs1 is also a huge problem in a 2vs2, simply becouse in bigger game one of the germans can rush for t3, and ostwind, IV or even stug is definetly a hard counter for m3. Also halftrack is appearing much more faster in 2vs2 than in 1vs1, and reinforcing units helps alot when dealing with this strat.

So i wouldnt recommend taking voice in a HUGE 1vs1 balance issue without having experience in this game mode. 2vs2 is not the same. But to be honest i think that it affects in some point bigger games too, its not so clearly to see it, but it still does.

I think, Ooray ability should have a penalization after the ooray it's done (same as Rangers in COh1).

+1

Yea, right, my comment was too harsh and inappropriate, his 2vs2 stats seems fair enough. So i apologize for it.

Still i dont think that this particural problem in 1vs1 is also a huge problem in a 2vs2, simply becouse in bigger game one of the germans can rush for t3, and ostwind, IV or even stug is definetly a hard counter for m3. Also halftrack is appearing much more faster in 2vs2 than in 1vs1, and reinforcing units helps alot when dealing with this strat.

So i wouldnt recommend taking voice in a HUGE 1vs1 balance issue without having experience in this game mode. 2vs2 is not the same. But to be honest i think that it affects in some point bigger games too, its not so clearly to see it, but it still does.


+1

Let me point out that me playing mostly 2v2 means that I often go against double sniper strats, which cause more mp bleed.
I've also never said its simple. I've said it works.
I might not play 1v1 much as I personally don't have as much fun there, but I watch enough casts to fully realize how top level play works. After all, these strats there are being used by players better then me and they seem to handle it well, thou T1 play is extreme rarity and its all about T2+shocks to call in tanks.

Based on 1v1 casts and my 2v2 experience snipers are much bigger problem in 2v2 if I can call that a problem at all as again, you often see two of them, which is not really affordable in 1v1 against aggressive german, but you should know that already with your rank. And last but not least, most 2v2 maps are same 1v1 maps, so its not as much of a difference between 1v1 and 2v2 as it is between 2v2 and 3v3 where maps are completely different and much bigger.

I think, Ooray ability should have a penalization after the ooray it's done (same as Rangers in COh1).

vCoH fire up also gave complete suppression immunity for duration, press a button, brainlessly charge up, lob nuclear pineapple nade and you have free MG42 for using ability that didn't even cost muni if I remember right.

Then use upgunned AC and make a long flank.
What stops you?
Conscripts that you can outrun?

Having T1 stops you. The Scout Car + Sniper had free reign of the entire map until German gets T2, you only lose it if you don't pay attention and get double 'fausted. But even if that happens, now you know you just delayed his FHT / MG 42 Grens, which is a painful disadvantage if you've gone T1 and rolled out Penals.

The Scout Car + Sniper had free reign of the entire map until German gets T2

So a whole 60 seconds? Whoopie. You have double his squads during that time.

vCoH fire up also gave complete suppression immunity for duration, press a button, brainlessly charge up, lob nuclear pineapple nade and you have free MG42 for using ability that didn't even cost muni if I remember right.

LOL. Right. If you didn't mind that the units with "fireup" all had drawbacks.
- Both were doctrinal.
- Both needed 100 (or 125) munitions to become fully effective.
- Both were expensive (400 or 375mp)
- both cost 45mp for each reinforcement model
- They took forever to level (especially Rangers which weren't able to reliably kill armor)
- Bazookas were almost useless against armor (only good for small vehicles)
- Airborne lacked anti-infantry AND their Recoilless Rifles lost a lot of effect on light vehicles.
- grenades were a 40 fuel cost to upgrade (AND you needed a barracks, so a no-T1 strat through to airborne squads means your infantry can't kill infantry).
- lack of suppression does not mean lack of damage. You WILL lose models at close range if you charge an MG42!

There is a reason you did not see Ranger or Airborne blobs in 1v1.

At least Wehr elite infantry got to choose if they would be anti-infantry or anti-tank. And Wehr always had 2 types of elite infantry as an option (Grens AND KCH) and sometimes 3, in every game. And they are all cheaper than the cheapest US elite unit. Heck, you could get volks models turned into gren models for free.

We all remember vCoH with such tinted glasses.

Infantry also had less health overall, which is why MG 42 would kill some when they charged. In fact, it'd be quicker to list off the units that had over 80HP in CoH1, compared to CoH2 you can count the ones with less on one hand.

Sniper shooting and killing in the car while it running is too bad...

Sniper shooting and killing in the car while it running is too bad...

50% accuracy on the move.

I don't have opinion on this issue. It doesn't bother me tbh.

There is a 25% chance to outright kill the Sniper unit in the clown car by destroying it. It is a high risk high reward strategy that doesn't last much beyond the early stages of the game. If they built a clown car and a sniper they have not only slowed their tech, they are also running with less regular infantry.

Cap around it since their map presence will be less with this combo and try to destroy the car.

50% accuracy on the move.

High!