lets talk about bunkers
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28 Jan 2014, 08:34 AM
#21
Posts: 647
they get built too fast and grenadiers shouldnt be able to build them, thats about it.
28 Jan 2014, 08:45 AM
#22
Posts: 1003
Because multiplayer is set en 1944 where Germany adopted a defensive position towards the Soviet Union. Thats the reason about german bunkers and the lack of soviet bunkers!
1944 - no fuel, no blitz, no tanks, no air support.
Only milions conscripts and tens of thousands T-34/85 tanks.
This is game and basic mechanics need have both sides.
Ami in CoH attack and bunkers can build.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
28 Jan 2014, 08:52 AM
#23
1 
Posts: 172
I have no problem against German bunkers, it just means a delay on flame HT and they are easily destroyed by Penals getting behind then in a scout car, mortars or AT guns. 
If I had to take hell, I would use the Australians to take it and the New Zealanders to hold it
- Erwin Rommel
- Erwin Rommel
28 Jan 2014, 09:34 AM
#24
Posts: 747
Bunkers are overrated. They can be destroyed very fast by a lot of weapons in the soviet arsenal. The manpower and ammo is far better invested in more infantry and upgrades.
Btw, why would you want bunkers as soviets when the 30 muni mine does the job even better?
Btw, why would you want bunkers as soviets when the 30 muni mine does the job even better?
28 Jan 2014, 09:46 AM
#25
Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1
I never want to see tank traps in game, all they do is remove any sort of fluidity to the game.
Any defensive items which can be used to block paths will just end up making games grind to halt.
Any defensive items which can be used to block paths will just end up making games grind to halt.
28 Jan 2014, 10:00 AM
#26
Posts: 1701
If you want bunkers and trenches for Soviets, give germans molotovs, then I will be fine.
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
28 Jan 2014, 10:54 AM
#27
Posts: 4928
If you want bunkers and trenches for Soviets, give germans molotovs, then I will be fine.
Or grenades that can actually clear buildings, none of those rifle grenades that kill one guy and chip a couple more.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Jan 2014, 11:18 AM
#28
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Or grenades that can actually clear buildings, none of those rifle grenades that kill one guy and chip a couple more.
Like assault or bundle nades?
Now, what would poor germans have to clear bunkers and trenches hmmm
-T0 flame pios
-T1 mortar, rifle nades
-T2 pzgs, PaKs, FHT
-Doctrinal-MHT with incendiary shot, assault gren nades, 250 transport with flame pios.
To me it seems just as much options.
Probably more considering how germans almost always have T1 and T2.
Quit whining, grass is not greener on the other side.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2014, 11:49 AM
#29
Posts: 4928
Like assault or bundle nades?
Now, what would poor germans have to clear bunkers and trenches hmmm
-T0 flame pios
-T1 mortar, rifle nades
-T2 pzgs, PaKs, FHT
-Doctrinal-MHT with incendiary shot, assault gren nades, 250 transport with flame pios.
To me it seems just as much options.
Probably more considering how germans almost always have T1 and T2.
Quit whining, grass is not greener on the other side.
Assault Grenades are weak and available on one unit of one doctrine, bundle grenades are good but expensive and no better than a guard grenade, flame pios are glass cannons, I already mentioned rifle 'nades inability to do shit against fortifications. You have to go all out to dislodge this trench, change up your build order, spend big where you would have saved.
Or, you could just waltz up with your basic infantry and toss a retreat button at the defending squad in the trench. Guarantee by the time they evacuate, they don't be in fighting condition anymore.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Jan 2014, 12:42 PM
#30
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Assault Grenades are weak and available on one unit of one doctrine, bundle grenades are good but expensive and no better than a guard grenade, flame pios are glass cannons, I already mentioned rifle 'nades inability to do shit against fortifications. You have to go all out to dislodge this trench, change up your build order, spend big where you would have saved.
Or, you could just waltz up with your basic infantry and toss a retreat button at the defending squad in the trench. Guarantee by the time they evacuate, they don't be in fighting condition anymore.
Reading posts like yours it makes me wonder how germans are able to clear a building before they can use stuka dive bomb or LE.f.h arty.
Also I've got this feeling that you expect germans to have something between KV-2 and KV-8 at around 3-5 minute, preferably as a stock unit.
If you can't use proper counters, then sorry, that does not mean they don't exist or yuo can diminish them.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2014, 12:51 PM
#31
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
Also I've got this feeling that you expect germans to have something between KV-2 and KV-8 at around 3-5 minute, preferably as a stock unit.
If you can't use proper counters, then sorry, that does not mean they don't exist or yuo can diminish them.
What he said is that Soviets can clear buildings more easily with a more common unit after getting a cheap upgrade than the Germans can, which is true. No need to exaggerate, it does nothing to help your argument.
Whether this disparity means anything in the grand scheme of balance is another issue though- honestly I don't think it does.
28 Jan 2014, 13:06 PM
#32
Posts: 1003
Clearing buildings is no problem for both faction.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
28 Jan 2014, 15:18 PM
#33
Posts: 134
Assault Grenades are weak and available on one unit of one doctrine, bundle grenades are good but expensive and no better than a guard grenade, flame pios are glass cannons, I already mentioned rifle 'nades inability to do shit against fortifications. You have to go all out to dislodge this trench, change up your build order, spend big where you would have saved.
Or, you could just waltz up with your basic infantry and toss a retreat button at the defending squad in the trench. Guarantee by the time they evacuate, they don't be in fighting condition anymore.
Bundle nades not better than shock nades ... Are you kidding me?? Bundle nades are much more effective (especially at clearing buildings where the longer fuse isn't a problem).
Also soviets can clear bunkers, but not easily. It takes precious precious time which is a killer in coh2 making bunkers way too good at area denial. Regular mortar does low damage to it, 120mm can't hit the broad side of a barn but when it does it hits hard, forcing into penals isn't an option especially if you have shocks, so that leaves the zis (which does a great job at it if you can protect it).
Personally if they're going to keep bunkers one side only then I'd like to see an accuracy increase for soviet mortars when firing at buildings that are being spotted by another unit (aka no fog of war) maybe a relatively small increase like up to or slightly above the accuracy of a German tube. This would make mortars more viable for bunker busting without making them op in regular play.
28 Jan 2014, 15:23 PM
#34
Posts: 1571
You clear bunkers easily:
Panzergrenadiers with Panzershrecks. Or a Pak gun from the flank.
Panzershrecks are OP against buildings, that's for sure. The damage they do..it doesn't even make any sense, LOL.
Panzergrenadiers with Panzershrecks. Or a Pak gun from the flank.
Panzershrecks are OP against buildings, that's for sure. The damage they do..it doesn't even make any sense, LOL.
29 Jan 2014, 01:22 AM
#35
Posts: 4928
Bundle nades not better than shock nades ... Are you kidding me?? Bundle nades are much more effective (especially at clearing buildings where the longer fuse isn't a problem).
It's all relative, a bundle grenade kills 3/4 guys, a guard nade kills 2-4. I can't say I've seen many bundle grenade squad wipes, but guard nade wipes aren't all that uncommon. Of course, this is less with faction balance and more an inherent design flaw with giving one faction strong AI and the other small squad sizes.
Also soviets can clear bunkers, but not easily. It takes precious precious time which is a killer in coh2 making bunkers way too good at area denial. Regular mortar does low damage to it, 120mm can't hit the broad side of a barn but when it does it hits hard, forcing into penals isn't an option especially if you have shocks, so that leaves the zis (which does a great job at it if you can protect it).
Are we just completely ignoring the molotov here then? Because I'm 100% sure any squad in a bunker that gets molotov'd has about 10 seconds to live, max. Grenadiers won't clear a trench that quick or effectively.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
29 Jan 2014, 04:10 AM
#36
Posts: 2779
You clear bunkers easily:
Panzergrenadiers with Panzershrecks. Or a Pak gun from the flank.
Panzershrecks are OP against buildings, that's for sure. The damage they do..it doesn't even make any sense, LOL.
WTF?
29 Jan 2014, 05:03 AM
#37
Posts: 647
who in the flying fuck cares about units in bunker? NO, its the mg upgrade, the one where the mg gunner is immune to everything except AT gun shots.
apart from that, there is no problem with bunker except it plops down almost instantly and can be built by grenadiers and pioneers and becoming a major pain in the ass for anyone without access to AT guns.
apart from that, there is no problem with bunker except it plops down almost instantly and can be built by grenadiers and pioneers and becoming a major pain in the ass for anyone without access to AT guns.
29 Jan 2014, 15:24 PM
#38
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Should MG bunkers be a recrewable/reinforcable unit? So if you flank it you can kill the guy inside with small arm fire?
It could be a 3man crew with a 2man recrew requirement (so it´s not as hard for german to recover).
If there is no way to make it behave as a support weapon, why not reduce the muni cost for the MG but make it so the mg crew can be killed and the upgrade being lost. Using either a molotov, sniper (or any other small arm fire source) or mortar (since it takes a while to destroy) will probably kill the mg crew rather than the bunker itself.
It could be a 3man crew with a 2man recrew requirement (so it´s not as hard for german to recover).
If there is no way to make it behave as a support weapon, why not reduce the muni cost for the MG but make it so the mg crew can be killed and the upgrade being lost. Using either a molotov, sniper (or any other small arm fire source) or mortar (since it takes a while to destroy) will probably kill the mg crew rather than the bunker itself.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
30 Jan 2014, 03:52 AM
#39
Posts: 4928
If there is no way to make it behave as a support weapon, why not reduce the muni cost for the MG but make it so the mg crew can be killed and the upgrade being lost. Using either a molotov, sniper (or any other small arm fire source) or mortar (since it takes a while to destroy) will probably kill the mg crew rather than the bunker itself.
But then what would be the point? People get the MG upgrade because it can't be killed by a 15m lolotov.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
30 Jan 2014, 17:46 PM
#40
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
But then what would be the point? People get the MG upgrade because it can't be killed by a 15m lolotov.
Only when you let it get flank. I just threw random ideas. I find it quite cheap (on teamgames) to just deploy a bunker so you can get a whole side cover by mg fire.
Offtopic: i think that molotovs should have a muni increase (but that may would need some other changes in other parts). So we reduce the spamming of molotovs.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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