Strategy in Company of Heroes 2

I think a real issue here is that Relic have identified they over simplified/pared down too much COH2 from COH in regards to content and options - such as the lack of tank traps etc.

While its good that they acknowledged this error - the problem is the way their reinstating what should have been core - as it was in COH - they're simply "band-aiding" now by "supplemental" commanders.

Thus the code is there in the game now - why must the player select a poor choice commander that implements what should have been a common ability available to the player regardless of commander?

As it stands - it either looks like they're out of fresh ideas or are a cash grab.

I.e. repair bunkers - a non doctrinal baseline ability in COH - is now a PAY MORE IF YOU WANT TO USE IT choice?

Forward HQ's? Yep - DLC.

Tank Traps? "Free" DLC

Soviet MG nests - a "new" DLC is waiting in the wings.

Etc....etc.

So we're essentially being repackaged COH in $3.99 pieces - there's no ingenuity here or ground breaking "new" items - its the same COH - just now if you want basic choices - you're paying for that "privilege".

The unfortunate part of COH2's ingenuity is "cold tech" - which many go out of their way to avoid by map veto oddly enough.

This - along with the relatively dull game play AND the fact that many coughed up a lot of money initially to play the game - it just makes for a sour experience.

What you're saying is you think CoH2 commanders should function like vCoH commanders. They should supplement a strategy, not define it. I think that works excellently when your base game offers a lot of strategic variety and depth. But CoH2 doesn't offer that. If you had vCoH-style commanders in CoH2, you'd have an extremely boring game.

Personally, I would've liked to see a deep base game with low-impact commanders. But CoH2 doesn't really have a deep base game, and the best hope for that depth right now is the constantly evolving commander system.

Yes, THAT is my message. I'm just hopeful that we can get more depth out of the core game starting from what we have. I see no reason why we couldn't.

Also, if the recent patches have taught us anything is that it may be harder to balance new wonky commanders than the base game.

I would assume that adding more units to the base game would be possible. They can add new units via commanders so I don't really see why they couldn't add more units to each faction - if they wanted to.

I think one thing that would really help out and possibly attract the attention of a lot of people that used to play, but quit, would be a big commander overhaul focusing on the commanders that come with the base game. I'm sure everyone has seen the massive thread about commander overlap being a problem so I'm not going to rehash any of that... but I do have to admit that most of the basic commanders aren't very intriguing, at least on the German side of things. They also tend to have little impact on how the game is played.

Not sure if redoing those commanders would be possible/considered by Relic but as I've said in this thread... we already have a LOT of commanders. Continuing to add more and more will eventually prove to be more of a problem than a solution.

I would assume that adding more units to the base game would be possible. They can add new units via commanders so I don't really see why they couldn't add more units to each faction - if they wanted to.

I think one thing that would really help out and possibly attract the attention of a lot of people that used to play, but quit, would be a big commander overhaul focusing on the commanders that come with the base game. I'm sure everyone has seen the massive thread about commander overlap being a problem so I'm not going to rehash any of that... but I do have to admit that most of the basic commanders aren't very intriguing, at least on the German side of things. They also tend to have little impact on how the game is played.

Not sure if redoing those commanders would be possible/considered by Relic but as I've said in this thread... we already have a LOT of commanders. Continuing to add more and more will eventually prove to be more of a problem than a solution.

Nail on the head there in regards to the initial commanders.

It was seriously like "Does it even matter?" which commander you selected as the game essentially played out the same irrespective of choice - which was a big criticism at that time.

Then the next round of "Pay to Play" commanders showed up...and now you have the conundrum we're in now.

Original commanders were too dull and non impacting of game play - then you had the pay-wall commanders that offered a lot more variety (and I use that word loosely as most would say OP) yet you had to PAY even more to use them, no if, buts or maybes.

Inverse is great to watch and his opinion is smack on. Even the option of making commanders "earn-able" won't help the significant other problems this game faces - but it's at least a start.

To supplement the loss of money from making commanders free, relic could add infantry skins. There are a ton of vehicle skins available but no infantry skin. I have bought vehicle skins and I would gladly purchase infantry skins.

To supplement the loss of money from making commanders free, relic could add infantry skins. There are a ton of vehicle skins available but no infantry skin. I have bought vehicle skins and I would gladly purchase infantry skins.

Apparently that's how it was meant to be at the start.....

I still don't know why this DLC model is required to be perfectly frank - larger expansions like OF and TV were priced at or near the price of the original game and yet there was no uproar at their release and I believe that was $$ that was going to cost of maintaining the game also.

I would pay for *realistic* infantry skins, not the ones we have now. I'm one of those pedants who cares about shit like that.

The issue with infantry skins is that those units are very small relative to the game. We had to do a lot of colour work to make sure that they're visible against the ground, so that you're not always losing your infantry units.

Which of course bumps up against the realistic point of most uniforms which is to decrease visibility during a battle.

At this point we don't feel that infantry skins is viable, though we may figure out a way to do it without in the future.

doesnt the giant squad icon floating above each unit already keep you from losing squads?

The issue with infantry skins is that those units are very small relative to the game. We had to do a lot of colour work to make sure that they're visible against the ground, so that you're not always losing your infantry units.

Yes, I appreciate that, there will always have to be a compromise between visibility and 'realism.' With respect, I think you might be underestimating the viability of infantry skins. There is precedent here... I give you Total War: Empires. Jesus, every Napoleonic war freak was buying infantry skins for their armies... there was just *stacks of it* selling. Just check out Steam.

People love this stuff. Do a skin representing the Grossdeutschland Division, late war flecktarn camo units, Guards, Russian AB, marine inf, really gnarly looking penals, make it so that *all* infantry units wear that skin and watch the drip-drip-drip of money.

I don't think a trial would hurt, although of course I don't underestimate the work involved versus risk.

Infantry skins would be awesome!!!! Realistic ostfront troops with gritty dirty uniforms!?

Community created vehicle and infantry skins through steam workshop. That's your moneymaker right there.

* shrugs * everyone wins. Those of us who like driving our realistic toy armies around pay money and the alleged P2W DLC becomes less central to the funding model.

We had to do a lot of colour work to make sure that they're visible against the ground, so that you're not always losing your infantry units.

Well, that explains why the grenadier uniforms are ugly. Sure as a game designer you want some color contrast between the ground and the units so players can locate their units, but personally I don't think it is a problem. if players can't find their units I would look more into the UI then the color of the infantry uniforms.

Their uniforms are designed to blend in with the surroundings after all. I also want better looking infantry and I don't think realistic camouflage would make it any more difficult to locate the units because that really depends on the UI.

So if it is possible to make more cooler skins, or greener maps, please do not worry about the color difference between the units and the map because I don't think that's the reason why you're "always losing your infantry units."

Oh and let's not start charging for that too I think you guys have pushed it far enough with price gouging dlc already

While we are at skins: I´d appreciate it, if there was access to the three-colour tank camouflage (e.g. the one the Germans used on almost all their tanks in 1944) on heavy tanks, for people owning only the basic game. Right now this camo scheme is only available for light vehicles and medium tanks without paying. For the heavy tanks I have to choose either none, or the ugly green with brown grid.

It´s very frustrating to not have the regular - real - camo scheme on all your vehicles available. My heavy tanks all look ugly.

But I think that was the point behind the camo schemes. Not giving access to nice ones on your heavies without paying.

Why the medium and light tanks get it, and the heavy ones not is beyond me.

I agree, it's a bad solution, but the only way to fix the base game would be a major redesign, and that just isn't going to happen until an expansion, and even then it's pretty doubtful. But with the recent change to increase the number of CPs, I think Relic could make commanders a lot more complex and give them a lot of abilities and upgrades that could approximate the kind of strategic options that made vCoH so much fun. If they lock those additions behind a paywall, however, it just makes the situation worse.

I think this is a really good idea, and the most seamless way for coh2 to approximate the in-game depth of VCOH.

More upgrades/bonuses/building unlocks within commanders could work, and might be easier to balance than trying to put things in the core game at this late stage. It would be a clean way of barring certain combinations, and would justify the kind of redundancy that is already in the various commanders. Some call-in units could actually still require buildings the way they did in beta, while still allowing for non-building call-ins.

The issue with infantry skins is that those units are very small relative to the game. We had to do a lot of colour work to make sure that they're visible against the ground, so that you're not always losing your infantry units.

Which of course bumps up against the realistic point of most uniforms which is to decrease visibility during a battle.

At this point we don't feel that infantry skins is viable, though we may figure out a way to do it without in the future.

It would be nice to have bulletins that changed the skin/model of a single type of unit.
Like adding cloacks, berets, decals for vehicles or some way of attire identification.

Usually I find bulletins irrelevant, as the only thing they do is to warn my opponent about my most probable build, so it would be nice to have aesthetic bulletins too.

That would be an interesting DLC that would't hurt multiplayer.


Another interesting idea would be to have the possibility to reset your commander choice, losing half of your CPs in the process. That way you could properly answer an enemy strategy if your first commander choice wasn't appropiate.

Precisely, one of the things that I most hate of CoH2 is how locked you are to a commander since early game, as you need to take profit from these 0 or 1 CP abilities.
I think it is one of the reasons the game seems less strategical than CoH1, were you could delay your doctrine choice much more, giving you the possibility to react better to your enemy moves.

The issue with infantry skins is that those units are very small relative to the game. We had to do a lot of colour work to make sure that they're visible against the ground, so that you're not always losing your infantry units.

Which of course bumps up against the realistic point of most uniforms which is to decrease visibility during a battle.

At this point we don't feel that infantry skins is viable, though we may figure out a way to do it without in the future.

Maybe release a few skins and get feedback regarding viability from your player base. If it doesn't work get rid of the skins. I'd love to have my troops blend in with the environment, then again I am a realism junkie. If you guys could get it to work there would be great rewards.