Panzergrens

Just to clarify I didn't ask for a nerf. Was just stating that it can be tough to deal with. If everything was face roll easy the game wouldn't be fun.

That and I was poking fun at everyone losing their minds about shocks, when in reality the two units are quite similar.

Shocks beat pgrens handily and rightfully so. Not really worth a comparison. I guess the only thing they can compare to is that they are both the elite infantry of their factions.

Shocks beat pgrens handily and rightfully so. Not really worth a comparison. I guess the only thing they can compare to is that they are both the elite infantry of their factions.

Exactly. They are both the best AI infantry available to either faction, are both expensive, and are fine the way they are.

Personally I find PGs strong, but not op like Shocks are at 1 cp. Also, I seem to lose loads of full PG squads by hitting a mine making it quite a vulnerable unit.

Are you hinting at the possibility that mines under certain circumstances may be worth it?

Just to clarify I didn't ask for a nerf. Was just stating that it can be tough to deal with. If everything was face roll easy the game wouldn't be fun.

That and I was poking fun at everyone losing their minds about shocks, when in reality the two units are quite similar.

There is a difference in those 2 units. PGrens can be facerolled by Shocks, they can`t stand against Shocks even while having +1 vet advantage. Also PGrens are 4 entities and can be stopped by 1 sniper shot while Shocks are 6 man squad with 2.5 armor. You can loose PGrens much easily that shocks, don`t compare those 2 untis, its just wrong.

Pgrens can also shoot all Russian Armor (cept IS-2).

ok nvm, I have found the real problem. The problem is smg weapons both ppsh and mp44s are loaded with so much dps at close range and are more or less equal in terms in long range, that is why theres the dominance of smg weapons over rifle infantry.

strangely enough, the mp40 is left rather similar to rifle damage ranges or in the case of assault grens, about a 25% increase in dps in close range(compared to grenadiers), while retaining only 50% of grenadier's dps at long range, but they have an extra man to make up for the rather modest boost in close range dps. which places combat against them in a rather comfortable position where they lose out to conscripts at long, but beat them handily up close. <--- this is the finesse that was lost here, in regards to small arms combat in vcoh, US vs Wehr.

however with pgrens and shock troops, their close range dps boosts are about 300-400% increase, mid range about 100-110% increase and close range about 10% increase. they are a direct upgrade to rifles at all ranges and it is no wonder they faceroll at their optimal ranges.

as long as there is this huge disparity in the dps of rifles and smg and it isnt hard for squads to close in, they will always faceroll rifle infantry.

There is a difference in those 2 units. PGrens can be facerolled by Shocks, they can`t stand against Shocks even while having +1 vet advantage. Also PGrens are 4 entities and can be stopped by 1 sniper shot while Shocks are 6 man squad with 2.5 armor. You can loose PGrens much easily that shocks, don`t compare those 2 untis, its just wrong.

Comparing shocks to pgrens is as close as a comparison as you can make for either of those units. They have virtually nothing in common with other infantry with regards to gameplay,as such in my oppinion comparing them is not any more wrong than comparing cons to grens.

And yes shocks are better at AI than pgrens, yes they are more survive able, yes they cost more and yes they cannot be upgraded with the most powerful handheld AT weapon in the game. What's the problem?

But i can see the average player having trouble with the "unkillable" anti-everything blob of doom.

Barely this with a little fix.

The same can be said for grens getting mowed by 1cp 440 mp doctrinal elite infantry ... But for some reason that sparks a huge QQ thread. Both pgrens and shocks need to be dealt with properly or they will face roll. However I find pgrens a little harder to deal with because you can't just go after them with vehicles because they can become the best AT infantry in game with the click of a butolton (assuming of course that the resources are there).

1- The problem is not the power of the unit, is the quick arrival of it
2- PG shrecks are just a support AT unit unless inside a building. You can kit them pretty effectively. If they ONLY chase you with 1 PG, you can safely eat the first salvo with your T34 and go for the crush. If they guy losses 2 guys he inmediatly need to retreat for the danger of losing n dropping the weapons.

Pgrens can also shoot all Russian Armor (cept IS-2).

SU76 can outrange all german tanks (cept Elephant). So? Going Shrecks is for support AT for a Pak/P4/Stug. Theres little reason to use it as a frontline unit.

Are you hinting at the possibility that mines under certain circumstances may be worth it?

30 muni hitting anything besides 1 pio is always worthy. With 2 kills you are assuring a retreat unit (what generally happens).

as long as there is this huge disparity in the dps of rifles and smg and it isnt hard for squads to close in, they will always faceroll rifle infantry.

BINGO!!

Lol is this thread a joke? Pgrens are very easy to deal with even with just conscripts. They are just huge manpower sinks.

LMG grens are IMO, so much better.

lol i thought you were complaining about them underperforming for the cost not the opposite...just ROTFL they have the highest reinforce cost in the game they are 4 and have averege armor what do you wanted to fight vs a bunch of sheeps?

The storm father AR (MP44) of the panzersgrens dont work soo good versus the shocks invencible armor, need more power for it, respect the god of the AR's (ak47 is a true copy of it, all knows)...

The russian style of comming into you with smg's in open space to kiss you, taking fire and dont die, but i think the germans are always drunk's...

Cover is too a big problem, is broke...

Want to know if in real life SMG win a AR with great start combat distance lol

If are all weapons and units OK for germans, i never will reclaim the russian spam die-reinforce, very strong artillery's, satellite mortars, and the cheap prices...

Tired of with 4 guys MP44 AR storm bullets that not kill.. Test with artillery, loosing the counts of times that they run of my panzersgrens with that tons with no problem, is a MP44 for paintball!!! Shot shot shot shot... Or is paintball or is drugs for the german infantry!!

Today I Have lost a vet3 PG that was facing SU85 with shrecks, every SU (anti tank) shot killed one by one of my man (remember, SU85 doesnt have MG), This is fucking epic, FUCKING EPIC. Try to do something with P4 against infantry, u will notice that there you wont do much damage to inf.

Lol is this thread a joke? Pgrens are very easy to deal with even with just conscripts. They are just huge manpower sinks.

LMG grens are IMO, so much better.

This. Guys they have the same suitability as grens. Just snipe them, mine them, nade them, roast them. T70 them is also great. Remember that they don't have fausts so m3s are deadly against them.

I too just use grens with lmg or g43 it depends what doctrine I choose.

Lol is this thread a joke? Pgrens are very easy to deal with even with just conscripts. They are just huge manpower sinks.

LMG grens are IMO, so much better.

I prefer lmg/g43 grens as a main anti Inf unit. I only get pgrens when I need another anti-tank option otherwise they're not worth the trouble.

I think i found my problem with this, its not the unit thats the problem. its when combined with troop training, an early vet3 pgrens is extremely powerful. without vet though, they are manageable.

although it means later pz4, but with them being upgradable with schrecks at any time means using armour to counter them may not be the best.

I still think they have too much dps, but at least they are soft.

I think i found my problem with this, its not the unit thats the problem. its when combined with troop training, an early vet3 pgrens is extremely powerful. without vet though, they are manageable.

although it means later pz4, but with them being upgradable with schrecks at any time means using armour to counter them may not be the best.

I still think they have too much dps, but at least they are soft.

Vet 3 PG are not KCH
Getting a sniper is really hard for you?

Vet 3 PG are not KCH
Getting a sniper is really hard for you?

in fact, i think i'm quite decent with them, on the average maybe 25-40kills? but they take a lonnnnnnng time to shoot so yea, 3 models still pack enough firepower to liquidate my riflemen.

and no one initiates combat with pgrens, they do it with grenadiers while pgrens come from the side don't they?

long range rifle dps is low to the point where cover negates alot of damage, so its easy to tie down infantry with grens. much to the point where snipers/grenades are the actual killers. so most of the time, my sniper would have fired on grenadiers, then a vet3 pgrens pops up and charges across the fields. which then no amount of focus fire can save me from that kind of firepower.

-

1 Sniper, 1 Penal = Pgrens not a problem

in fact, i think i'm quite decent with them, on the average maybe 25-40kills? but they take a lonnnnnnng time to shoot so yea, 3 models still pack enough firepower to liquidate my riflemen.

and no one initiates combat with pgrens, they do it with grenadiers while pgrens come from the side don't they?

long range rifle dps is low to the point where cover negates alot of damage, so its easy to tie down infantry with grens. much to the point where snipers/grenades are the actual killers. so most of the time, my sniper would have fired on grenadiers, then a vet3 pgrens pops up and charges across the fields. which then no amount of focus fire can save me from that kind of firepower.

Sounds like you are trying hard to justify a losing argument. No one agrees. I don't like to use this ever, but it sounds more like a l2p issue.