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120mm and its uses.

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rofltehcat
9 Jan 2014, 18:11 PM
#21
avatar of rofltehcat

Posts: 604

The problem before the nerf was that it was one of the RNG units that could wipe squads without warning, player action or resource cost (a precision strike at least costs resources and requires player actions). Plus it was basically impossible to take out.
Before the nerf I was advising for the unit to be toned down.

Here are the patch changes:
Cost from 360 MP to 400 MP
Range from 120 to 100
Scatter ratio from 0.1 to 0.15
Distance scatter max from 14 to 15


In my opinion, the nerf completely missed its target (how fitting...) beyond the change to scatter scaling (loses accuracy quicker with increased distance, had far too low scaling before the nerf). It didn't really change anything about the explosion radius or its damage, mainly just changed values that were no problem to begin with.

It is just as much of a RNG weapon as it used to be. It will still one-shot squads without warning, it just won't do it as often.
Most of the changes to it were really just to make it undesirable without fixing the problems the mortar had.

I think buffing it would be the right step to go. Preferably with changes to its RNG nature.
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wongtp
9 Jan 2014, 18:28 PM
#22
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

so basically, the thing with 120mm is that its vet ability is the key to using it to full effect, while its regular rounds are very prone to missing.

while the 82mm has the same vet ability and better accuracy for lower range but comes with a much lower cost.

shall try it out more often with the vet ability then.
SunBro

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197993238990
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Jinseual
9 Jan 2014, 18:28 PM
#23
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

Exactly, Relic gave the mortar other nerfs but they still did not fix the main problem, RNG squads wipes and precision strike.

Remove the precision strike, buff the range, perhaps lower the damage of the AOE circle while leaving the impact damage the same or a little lower.
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wongtp
9 Jan 2014, 18:40 PM
#24
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

maybe a damage fall off might fix squad wipes? or place a limit to the maximum damage it can do.
SunBro

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197993238990
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What Doth Life?!
10 Jan 2014, 00:45 AM
#25
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

If you have vision on your target pretty much all of the mortars will deal significant damage. If you are simply barraging with the 120 at its max range into the fog of war and expecting results then good luck.

You can shift-queue auto-fire and barrage then move your mortar to another location to keep your opponent guessing and keep your crews alive.

The 120 has a VERY long flight time on its rounds even at close range so it's a matter of learning the timing when attacking ground.
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Stoffa
10 Jan 2014, 01:41 AM
#26
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Posts: 333

Cant believe people find the 120mm underwhelming. It's an absolute beast imo.
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Imagelessbean
10 Jan 2014, 01:51 AM
#27
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

I also find the 120 incredibly useful. The precision shot is excellent. In addition, when it is on the field if your opponent does not have a MHT you are sitting pretty. You really don't even have to move it. And yet your opponent has to move his support weapons every 5-10 seconds to prevent being wiped. Extremely useful in the right situation.
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wongtp
10 Jan 2014, 03:22 AM
#28
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2014, 01:41 AMStoffa
Cant believe people find the 120mm underwhelming. It's an absolute beast imo.


thats the reason why i made this thread. i have been using it wrong and people have taught me stuff here.
SunBro

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197993238990
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Volsky
10 Jan 2014, 03:59 AM
#29
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

It's hit or miss (hue hue). Sometimes it's infinitely useful, others (see: team games w. Pgrens -> Panther spam) it's a useless manpower sink that ends up sitting at your base, forgotten, until you mollie it with a spare Con squad to get 9 extra pop for a new tank.
Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
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SgtBulldog
10 Jan 2014, 09:38 AM
#30
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 688

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2014, 17:41 PMwooof
the 120mm precision is actually stronger than the 82mm, though not by much. the 120mm does 200 damage with 9 AOE (the same stats as the german howitzer....) but the 82mm only does 160 damage. same range, same AOE. that means the 120mm with wipe squads more consistently with its precision, but even the 82mm can wipe squads easily.


But the 82mm has a much higher fire rate, effecively increasing its chance to hit targets, right?
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
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Stoffa
10 Jan 2014, 14:39 PM
#31
avatar of Stoffa

Posts: 333

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2014, 03:22 AMwongtp


thats the reason why i made this thread. i have been using it wrong and people have taught me stuff here.


Give me your emailaddress in a pm and Ill send u a replay to demonstrate how good is it.

Btw in the game Barton just posted it also enters the battlefield and does very well. It takes out the Pak43 (both the crew and the gun itself), kills the Brummbar and quite a lot of infantry:

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tokarev
10 Jan 2014, 15:31 PM
#32
avatar of tokarev

Posts: 307

Kills Brummbar? That's something new
Vae Victis!
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James Hale
10 Jan 2014, 16:22 PM
#33
avatar of James Hale

Posts: 574

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2014, 15:31 PMtokarev
Kills Brummbar? That's something new

In theory it could, but it'd have to be a very lucky shot to an already heavily damaged one.
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wooof
10 Jan 2014, 16:30 PM
#34
avatar of wooof

Posts: 950 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jan 2014, 09:38 AMSgtBulldog


But the 82mm has a much higher fire rate, effecively increasing its chance to hit targets, right?


it shoots roughly 1.5 seconds slower, so its really not that big of an effect. the 82mm is also slightly more accurate, but the 120mm has 50% bigger AOE. it also has 25% more range than the 82mm when they are both auto firing.
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tokarev
10 Jan 2014, 23:38 PM
#35
avatar of tokarev

Posts: 307

I thought mortars don't do damage to medium and heavies. I even started a topic some time ago trying to figure out why 120mm mortar doesn't damage Flak Panzer. It has an open top but every time the shell lands right where the crew sits, it bounces.... of what? Helmets? Those Germans must have really strong heads...
Vae Victis!
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lanciano
11 Jan 2014, 00:10 AM
#36
avatar of lanciano

Posts: 210

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2014, 14:19 PMJames Hale
It really wants knocking back down to 360 MP.


+1 so over priced
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lanciano
11 Jan 2014, 00:25 AM
#37
avatar of lanciano

Posts: 210

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2014, 11:44 AMAradan
Expensive, inaccurate and overnerfed. Better way is steal some Ost. mortar.

+1 ost mortar is rng rapid fire sniper mortar, it vets so quickly with 30% more range at vet three, id say that it is too good for 240mp. It one my most feared units in the game
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ThoseDeafMutes
11 Jan 2014, 11:41 AM
#38
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

It still feels painful on the receiving end in team games. Flag it down as possibly needing a slight cost reduction, but leave it alone until other more pressing balance issues are worked out. We'll get a better idea of how good or bad it is in an absolute sense when the metagame is more balanced.
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JHeartless
11 Jan 2014, 19:57 PM
#39
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

A welk microd 82mm is better than the 120mn in every way possible. It is apmost half the price and as such will vet faster. It precion strike is almost identical and you will get less friendly fire kills because the rounds hangtime is much less.

The onky advantage of the 120mm is it can sometimes be effecrive without micro in team games againt a campy ost player. And as stated abive its a mortor you can have with T1. I have nit been impressed with this unit since its first round of nerfs. Now with the second round if nerfs and a price increase it is all but useless.
jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2015, 21:57 PMREforever
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
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What Doth Life?!
12 Jan 2014, 02:00 AM
#40
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2014, 19:57 PMJHeartless
Now with the second round if nerfs and a price increase it is all but useless.


The mere fact that it is a call-in unit not having a requisite building is a huge strength. It's also slightly more survivable since it doesn't decrew with only 1 man left.
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