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russian armor

Shocktroops at 1CP

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7 Jan 2014, 16:05 PM
#261
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747


Biggest issue is keeping a sniper alive. I have never kept a sniper alive for a whole game, especially German ones. Its just to hard with all the soviets splash damage and RNG that always seems to favor them (my experience only). They need to be babysat all game and I guess my micro just isn't up to snuff. There is one game I lost vs NorthWestFresh where I kept my sniper alive for the majority of the game and he racked up 70 kills. A random gunshot salvo got him...:/ After he had survived countless.


I feel your pain...

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 15:44 PMAradan
You can skip T1 and have Pzg very early. Problem is with ST and Pzg. They are too strong and rape conscripts and greens like no tomorow. Shocks and Pzg with assault rifles are T4 units and is fault from Relic give them early.


Skipping t1 as Ostheer in 1v1 and 2v2 pays off when going Osttruppen at the most and it might be sometimes useful in 3v3+ (without Osttruppen). I think the timing of elite infantry was fine before the patch. I don't see any reason to make those t4, soviet t1 and t2 holds enough counters for pgrens and german t2 and t3 holds enough counters for guards or shocks.
7 Jan 2014, 17:30 PM
#262
avatar of r7Bashy

Posts: 45

Ok how about this?

Soviets can keep their shocktroops at CP 1

But Ostheer sniper gets a durability buff.

Id be happy with this, the German sniper is truly so weak, including the fact that when you do hit retreat they seem to take the most ridiculous route to escape almost guaranteeing they get killed.

Cant see why the soviet players would have a problem with the buff to sniper armour, i mean surely they want the game balanced?

A little help with the scout car would also not go a miss.

This would probably also be alot easier to implement.
7 Jan 2014, 17:53 PM
#263
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

Yes a sniper+SC buff would not go amiss to help balance this mess
7 Jan 2014, 18:56 PM
#264
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

We were discussing sniper armour buff in other topic and I think almost every one agreed that it's not such a good idea.

I am able to deal with Shocks pretty well right now using just German T1.
For me it was more of adaptation issue rather than anything else.
I don't mind Shocks being moved back to CP2 as well. I am meutral. I mean it is nice to have a strong unit early game but I usually build Shocks as my 4th unit as I prefer to have capping power early on. You can almost have 2 squads of Cons for the price.
7 Jan 2014, 19:02 PM
#265
avatar of link0

Posts: 337

German sniper should have 80hp instead of 40hp, but have armor nerfed from 2 to 1. This way they are less susceptible to RNG rolls against small arms fire, but have the same effective survivability. They would be slightly more durable against AOE as well.
7 Jan 2014, 19:22 PM
#266
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 19:02 PMlink0
German sniper should have 80hp instead of 40hp, but have armor nerfed from 2 to 1. This way they are less susceptible to RNG rolls against small arms fire, but have the same effective survivability. They would be slightly more durable against AOE as well.


I agree on hp buff and armor nerf, but then again they are still more vulnerable to explosions which in my opinion is issue with ost sniper. Soviet snipers can be hit by mortar shell/panzerwerfer/pak/zis/tank shell and still be lucky enough for other entity to run away.

I had so many situations when I barraged Soviet sniper with panzerwerfer and yet they still manage to run away.
7 Jan 2014, 19:33 PM
#267
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 19:02 PMlink0
German sniper should have 80hp instead of 40hp, but have armor nerfed from 2 to 1. This way they are less susceptible to RNG rolls against small arms fire, but have the same effective survivability. They would be slightly more durable against AOE as well.


Sounds reasonable, I like it.
7 Jan 2014, 19:34 PM
#268
avatar of General TheoDErich

Posts: 20


However for the guy who mentioned by the time you have a gren, mg, and sniper sov has 4 cons. That's still not that big of an issue. The mg can suppress 2 cons, the gren can engage the other 2 with the sniper far back in support. Sure let the sov player OOOraah where he thinks the sniper will be, just micro. He will be hurting from the 3-4 shots the sniper will get on those squads..


Dont think any good soviet player will let 2 cons get supressed by the same MG. He has 4 flexible, moving units, of which you can stop 1 with your mg, 3 to go for your sniper, 1 or two keeping your gren at bay, still one conscript is more than a sniper can handle on its own
7 Jan 2014, 21:18 PM
#269
avatar of link0

Posts: 337



I agree on hp buff and armor nerf, but then again they are still more vulnerable to explosions which in my opinion is issue with ost sniper. Soviet snipers can be hit by mortar shell/panzerwerfer/pak/zis/tank shell and still be lucky enough for other entity to run away.

I had so many situations when I barraged Soviet sniper with panzerwerfer and yet they still manage to run away.


The soviet sniper is designed to be better than the OST sniper. That's just part of the game design. This is because the Soviet T1 building locks you into one tech path and is also much more expensive than the OST T1 building.
8 Jan 2014, 03:04 AM
#270
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 21:18 PMlink0


The soviet sniper is designed to be better than the OST sniper. That's just part of the game design. This is because the Soviet T1 building locks you into one tech path and is also much more expensive than the OST T1 building.


This argument is the worst I read from you.

Back in COH1, US need to forgone Rifles to get early super sniper, did USA sniper be better than the wehr one?
Did US MG better than MG42?

Early tech path should mean nothing to unit design.

Sniper is a very special unit in COH and should not be that different. Now it comes out survival of Soviet sniper is much better, with some ridiculous running ability even more help in their survival chance. It also destroy the good old counter-sniping art of the old game.

How about this? Soviet sniper squad can no longer be reinforce?
8 Jan 2014, 03:11 AM
#271
avatar of Razh

Posts: 166

Permanently Banned
The simple reason the German sniper is better is due to their camo re-entry after firing. They can snipe without ever have to worry about being countersniped (unless they've accumulated camo penalty by shooting rapidly)
8 Jan 2014, 07:01 AM
#272
avatar of link0

Posts: 337



This argument is the worst I read from you.

Back in COH1, US need to forgone Rifles to get early super sniper, did USA sniper be better than the wehr one?
Did US MG better than MG42?

Early tech path should mean nothing to unit design.

Sniper is a very special unit in COH and should not be that different. Now it comes out survival of Soviet sniper is much better, with some ridiculous running ability even more help in their survival chance. It also destroy the good old counter-sniping art of the old game.

How about this? Soviet sniper squad can no longer be reinforce?


Well, the soviet T1 building costs a lot more and doesn't offer the same breath of unit options that the German t1 building offers. Also, the Soviet sniper is only a bit better overall, it's not that big of a deal. The German sniper cloaks much faster.

The main problem right now is that the German sniper is bugged and doesn't auto fire 100% of the time.
8 Jan 2014, 10:36 AM
#273
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jan 2014, 19:02 PMlink0
German sniper should have 80hp instead of 40hp, but have armor nerfed from 2 to 1. This way they are less susceptible to RNG rolls against small arms fire, but have the same effective survivability. They would be slightly more durable against AOE as well.


+1 Sounds good.
8 Jan 2014, 10:47 AM
#274
avatar of Jesper23

Posts: 15

They cost 440 mp, end of discussion, u need mg protected by grens,and they will force retreat evry time, and that combo cost 480 mp. Reinforce cost is 36 mp, i mean get snipet kill 3 of em with the sniper/grens combo, and that is just devastating for your opponents mp. And u do not have 2 worry about guards if u ge flammer ht, i mean someone is complayning that they are fragile on mines, i mean WTF do you want? U want your ht just wondering around the map killing all soviet infant...? And if the Soviet player is dumb enough and he 2ent T1, he has nothing to counter your flammer ht, until that t70, and u can easly counter that with pgrens with shrecks or pak... There are ways to counter evrything, just THINK! I mean Soviets have 2 face free TA, and instantn vet squads, and the only way 2 counter them are shcks. Just be realistic they are just fine at 1 cp...
8 Jan 2014, 12:06 PM
#275
avatar of r7Bashy

Posts: 45

Sounds like a worried soviet spammer to me,

Justifying 1cp shocks is just ludicrous, look how many posts this topic has, its clear to see what most reasonable people feel.
8 Jan 2014, 14:22 PM
#276
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

They cost 440 mp, end of discussion, u need mg protected by grens,and they will force retreat evry time, and that combo cost 480 mp. Reinforce cost is 36 mp, i mean get snipet kill 3 of em with the sniper/grens combo, and that is just devastating for your opponents mp. And u do not have 2 worry about guards if u ge flammer ht, i mean someone is complayning that they are fragile on mines, i mean WTF do you want? U want your ht just wondering around the map killing all soviet infant...? And if the Soviet player is dumb enough and he 2ent T1, he has nothing to counter your flammer ht, until that t70, and u can easly counter that with pgrens with shrecks or pak... There are ways to counter evrything, just THINK! I mean Soviets have 2 face free TA, and instantn vet squads, and the only way 2 counter them are shcks. Just be realistic they are just fine at 1 cp...


FHT is easily beaten by 2 conscripts with at nades so even when player goes shocks the FHT is still not that useful. In addition, the FHT range is the same as the AT nade so how can I use it to kill conscripts without automatically getting hit by AT nades?

After nerfs I have found that FHT is just not worth the munitions. I think there is a small problem with this unit right now, but I don't want to see it go back to the days of the napalm Mercedes.

I don't think arguing that a OP doc makes 1 cp shocks a good idea. I don't own the OP doc so I should just lose because an OP doc exists? Not great logic.
8 Jan 2014, 14:27 PM
#277
avatar of General TheoDErich

Posts: 20



FHT is easily beaten by 2 conscripts with at nades so even when player goes shocks the FHT is still not that useful. In addition, the FHT range is the same as the AT nade so how can I use it to kill conscripts without automatically getting hit by AT nades?

After nerfs I have found that FHT is just not worth the munitions. I think there is a small problem with this unit right now, but I don't want to see it go back to the days of the napalm Mercedes.

I don't think arguing that a OP doc makes 1 cp shocks a good idea. I don't own the OP doc so I should just lose because an OP doc exists? Not great logic.


+1
8 Jan 2014, 14:33 PM
#278
avatar of SgtBulldog

Posts: 688

Buffing german units is the answer to every balance thread nowadays. I understand why some like to jump that bandwaggon, but it really won't be good for the game overall.

Isn't the point about the snipers simply, that if they worked as intended and didn't hold fire or get trapped in all kinds of stuff, they would be a decent counter?
8 Jan 2014, 14:44 PM
#279
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

i just feel their high armour makes them pretty immune to small arms fire. resulting in focus fire being quite ineffective against them, making them the prime flanking force. then their smoke nades and grenades make them even more effective at closing in.

1 of them, they arent much of a problem, when 3 of them, there's a problem, they faceroll german infantry. we had this problem back in vcoh, it was called the ranger spam. a high upkeep and high reinforce cost probably sufficient a nerf. just make it difficult to field a couple of them
8 Jan 2014, 14:54 PM
#280
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1701

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2014, 14:44 PMwongtp


1 of them, they arent much of a problem, when 3 of them, there's a problem, they faceroll german infantry. we had this problem back in vcoh, it was called the ranger spam. a high upkeep and high reinforce cost probably sufficient a nerf. just make it difficult to field a couple of them


^This
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