From my experience and also from replays Ive wachted MG42 is enough to control Shock Troops. If they smoke you have enough time before suppression wears off to reposition and catch them again. When Soviet goes double Shocks getting a second MG42 or a fast Flame Halftrack is enough. Sniper is a good idea as well.
With mass Shocks you are up for easier times when tanks hit the field and reinforce cost puts a heavy MP bleed on Soviet player.
Shocktroops at 1CP
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2 Jan 2014, 00:51 AM
#201
Posts: 1439
2 Jan 2014, 00:59 AM
#202
Posts: 135
problem is t2 sov has mortars that whipe out mg's and a zis that kills fht. t2 with shocks is very annoying. total map control... true if they build t2 and some units they cant call in 2 shocks right away but they will get that one fast and thats really all they need to kill your grens and pios, then you got nothing to cap with.
2 Jan 2014, 01:03 AM
#203
Posts: 1439
German mortar is a pretty good counter to a Soviet one early game. With Soviet one getting Vet1 it's a different story but you can still hunt it down pretty effectvely due to rate of fire difference. You have to reposition after each barrage.
2 Jan 2014, 09:47 AM
#204
Posts: 747
German mortar is a pretty good counter to a Soviet one early game. With Soviet one getting Vet1 it's a different story but you can still hunt it down pretty effectvely due to rate of fire difference. You have to reposition after each barrage.
From my experience and also from replays Ive wachted MG42 is enough to control Shock Troops. If they smoke you have enough time before suppression wears off to reposition and catch them again. When Soviet goes double Shocks getting a second MG42 or a fast Flame Halftrack is enough. Sniper is a good idea as well.
With mass Shocks you are up for easier times when tanks hit the field and reinforce cost puts a heavy MP bleed on Soviet player.
That doesn't change the fact that you have to fight an uphill battle right from the start when facing early shocks. Mgs, mortars, sniper etc limit your mobility thus forcing you to scrifice mapcontrol.
Btw. that mg maneuver you described might work every once in a while but the mg crew is more likely to be cought by a flanking consquad before they're able to resetup.
2 Jan 2014, 10:20 AM
#205
Posts: 1439
I like to have MG42 for every Shock squad because if you are able to control them, stop the advance, so Soviet won't get map control early then you are getting more out of it.
2 Jan 2014, 14:23 PM
#206
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
I have not had MG42's successfully control shocks since they were first nerfed. They cannot pin them (and this is all that matters) before a grenade order is issued, and I can't take points with them. Also shocks are fairly resistant to suppression and even have a bulletin further increasing it. MG42's are not the counters to shocks they are delaying features to allow the "hard counter" sniper to pick them off. Also in teamgames if a player goes T1 for snipers, and I am MG MG sniper, I just lost.
2 Jan 2014, 14:56 PM
#207
Posts: 9
Why can't the germans just get a comparable elite infantry unit at 1 CP? Give us KCH or fallschrimjager who also have 2.25 armor and super machineguns, and smoke grenades. Also, if you say that Pgrens are comparable elite infantry, I'll rip your eyes out and feed them back to you.
2 Jan 2014, 15:32 PM
#208
Posts: 1003
Why can't the germans just get a comparable elite infantry unit
In the same reason, why soviets dont have non doctrinal T34-85, with the same parametres as Panther.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
2 Jan 2014, 16:27 PM
#209
Posts: 9
In the same reason, why soviets dont have non doctrinal T34-85, with the same parametres as Panther.
You mean to tell me that soviets need MORE tanks that are good? What about the SU 85, which comes out faster than a panther, and out ranges it? Not to mention that the T34 can already ram which always destroys the main gun of any tank it rams.
2 Jan 2014, 16:36 PM
#210
Posts: 1003
You mean to tell me that soviets need MORE tanks that are good? What about the SU 85, which comes out faster than a panther, and out ranges it? Not to mention that the T34 can already ram which always destroys the main gun of any tank it rams.
CoH and CoH2 have asymetrical ballace. You cannot have the same units and possibilities.
Chance beat every unit with right counter yes, but the same units on both side = boring game.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
2 Jan 2014, 16:39 PM
#211
Posts: 9
CoH and CoH2 have asymetrical ballace. You cannot have the same units and possibilities.
Chance beat every unit with right counter yes, but the same units on both side = boring game.
Yeah, maybe so, but I'd rather not have one side that gets super units and super tanks and super planes, while the other side doesn't get any of those things. I remember months ago when discussing balance, and soviet infantry was better, the soviet cry was "But germans have better tanks!" Well, such is no longer the case. The soviets have superior tanks and superior troops. Either give us better troops, or give us better tanks, but don't give both of those things to one side, and give none to the other.
2 Jan 2014, 16:45 PM
#212
Posts: 1003
Yeah, maybe so, but I'd rather not have one side that gets super units and super tanks and super planes, while the other side doesn't get any of those things. I remember months ago when discussing balance, and soviet infantry was better, the soviet cry was "But germans have better tanks!" Well, such is no longer the case. The soviets have superior tanks and superior troops. Either give us better troops, or give us better tanks, but don't give both of those things to one side, and give none to the other.
Right way is strong counters, not more powerfull units the same class. Example, in CoH1 flames hard counter elite armour. Why not in CoH2?
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
2 Jan 2014, 16:48 PM
#213
Posts: 9
Right way is strong counters, not more powerfull units the same class. Example, in CoH1 flames hard counter elite armour. Why not in CoH2?
Because in coh2, the countered units have counters to the counters. i.e. shocks having smoke grenades to counteract MGs, or conscripts having oorah and AT nades.
2 Jan 2014, 18:48 PM
#214
Posts: 747
Because in coh2, the countered units have counters to the counters. i.e. shocks having smoke grenades to counteract MGs, or conscripts having oorah and AT nades.
I wouldn't consider the MG42 to be a hardcounter to shocktroops. The hardcounter are vehicles and snipers, at least in theory.
I wouldn't mind some sort of elite call-in infantry for the germans, as long as it's not available before 2cps (and of course reasonably balanced *looking at you relic* Kappa)
2 Jan 2014, 19:40 PM
#215
Posts: 9
I wouldn't consider the MG42 to be a hardcounter to shocktroops. The hardcounter are vehicles and snipers, at least in theory.
I wouldn't mind some sort of elite call-in infantry for the germans, as long as it's not available before 2cps (and of course reasonably balanced *looking at you relic* Kappa)
But even still, whether the MG isnt the hard counter or not, the countered units still have counters to the counters. i.e. oorah to force snipers off the map (not to mention 6 man squads is default, so snipers are already less effective), plus AT nades to stop any early game vehicles, and even T3 vehicles.
2 Jan 2014, 20:16 PM
#216
Posts: 337
I consider MG42s and Snipers to be essential. I've been winning every single game against Shock spammers by using those 2 units passively.
The only problem is that Snipers seem to bug out a lot now and not fire, which is obviously game-breaking.
The only problem is that Snipers seem to bug out a lot now and not fire, which is obviously game-breaking.
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2 Jan 2014, 21:07 PM
#217
Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4
I consider MG42s and Snipers to be essential. I've been winning every single game against Shock spammers by using those 2 units passively.
The only problem is that Snipers seem to bug out a lot now and not fire, which is obviously game-breaking.
This works so long as the Soviet mortar doesn't RNG-god snipe your sniper or force your MG42 to pack up. Also good Shock players will find the HMG42 with a con squad and flank it with the Shocks.
Also also speaking from my recent 2v2 experiences when my partner goes t2/shocks it is really easy for me to go T1/guards and we have a hardcounter to the FHT plus MG42s and a relatively reliable counter to German snipers. It feels really broken honestly... we've had a ton of success with it (my current Soviet 2v2 streak being +41).
Also also also... we've had games where we both go T2/shocks (was testing t2/t4 with Kv-1s) and when snipers show up we just get a Katyusha. Might be important to note that neither of us really "spam" shocks excessively - usually just 1 squad. We just capitalize (read cheese cuz I admit it is retarded) on the fact that Shocks come into the game so early and allow for so much map control. Just walk a shock squad on top of 3 gren squads and win. Yay. Such skill.
2 Jan 2014, 21:22 PM
#218
Posts: 1617
Also shocks + con's at nades and mines counter the FHT. Snipers could work but they are easy to kill and the russians can merge to keep the reinforcment's cost at 20 mp.
As said before, smoke 'nades help against Mg-42s.
Conclussion: In the hands of a good player EARLY shocks are almost impossible to counter effectively withouth doctrinal selection
As said before, smoke 'nades help against Mg-42s.
Conclussion: In the hands of a good player EARLY shocks are almost impossible to counter effectively withouth doctrinal selection
3 Jan 2014, 18:28 PM
#219
Posts: 747
Conclussion: In the hands of a good player EARLY shocks are almost impossible to counter effectively withouth doctrinal selection
What commander do you have in mind?
3 Jan 2014, 19:24 PM
#220
Posts: 337
Also shocks + con's at nades and mines counter the FHT. Snipers could work but they are easy to kill and the russians can merge to keep the reinforcment's cost at 20 mp.
As said before, smoke 'nades help against Mg-42s.
Conclussion: In the hands of a good player EARLY shocks are almost impossible to counter effectively withouth doctrinal selection
In top level 1v1, snipers are next to impossible to kill. I suggest getting LMGs on all your grens instead of rushing to a FHT. LMG grens trade very cost-effectively with Shocks, considering their reinforcement costs differences.
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