Shocktroops at 1CP
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19 Dec 2013, 00:09 AM
#81
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Best way to counter them imo would be to go triple mgs + dbl snipers into fht/pzrgrens.
19 Dec 2013, 01:03 AM
#82
Posts: 22
Only because you think the 1cp change doesn't affect 1v1 as hard, does not justify it breaking 2v2 balance, especially since it is an absolutely unneeded change.
It has nothing to do with what I think. I am suggesting if Shocks are fine in 1v1 but not in 2v2 then if the Shock+Guard combo specifically is the problem a better idea would be to balance Guards instead. Don't turn this into an ad hominem.
19 Dec 2013, 02:47 AM
#83
Posts: 419
Best way to counter them imo would be to go triple mgs + dbl snipers into fht/pzrgrens.Whenever I try heavy mgs, sniper,into t2, out come flaming m3s destroying most of my force. Even throwing grens in the mix, mgs need to babysat so much i cant cap very fast. I'm starting to wonder if they are even worth it. I guess the mind games imposed on enemies should be added to shocktroopers bio.
19 Dec 2013, 02:50 AM
#84
Posts: 409
It has nothing to do with what I think. I am suggesting if Shocks are fine in 1v1 but not in 2v2 then if the Shock+Guard combo specifically is the problem a better idea would be to balance Guards instead. Don't turn this into an ad hominem.
It's just as much of a problem when both players start spamming shocks real early.
19 Dec 2013, 08:31 AM
#85
Posts: 747
I don't have a problem with guards and shocks being available earlier in the game. They are well balanced by their price, so it's all good. I would actually love to see more shocks being used because I hardly ever see them. The diversity would spice things up.
There are good chances to see a decent amount of shocktroops when playing against CaptainSprice
It's just as much of a problem when both players start spamming shocks real early.
It is indeed.
I actually don't think that early shocks or guards add variety, I mean you would have built them anyways they just come out earlier (well you might skip a consquad). So all this change actually does, is increasing the window of opportunity for those two units as well as ending the early game sooner, which I think is terrible.
19 Dec 2013, 08:36 AM
#86
Posts: 93
Best way to counter them imo would be to go triple mgs + dbl snipers into fht/pzrgrens.
Dual mgs + 1 gren + dual snip into fht/pzgrens is what I usually use in 1v1s and 2v2s now.
The gren is mandatory for faust protection.
Works a bit like the VVSM form vCOH in terms of map control but once you get to t2 things change fast.
19 Dec 2013, 21:07 PM
#87
Posts: 747
Dual mgs + 1 gren + dual snip into fht/pzgrens is what I usually use in 1v1s and 2v2s now.
The gren is mandatory for faust protection.
Works a bit like the VVSM form vCOH in terms of map control but once you get to t2 things change fast.
You also need to hold indirect los when using hmg42s because of thsmoke nades, grenadiers serve that purpose pretty well. Snipers are definitely a must have now.
20 Dec 2013, 09:33 AM
#88
Posts: 688
Soviets are seriously f***** against fast SC and HT if you remove or delay guards.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
20 Dec 2013, 09:49 AM
#89
Posts: 578
I've managed to hold off quite well vs Shock spam by going Gren Gren MG Gren, T2 -> FHT PzGrens
20 Dec 2013, 09:54 AM
#90
Posts: 747
Soviets are seriously f***** against fast SC and HT if you remove or delay guards.
Why would one want to remove guards?
I would only suggest to move them back to 2cp (1cp old system) as they were, there was absolutely no problem with that timing.
20 Dec 2013, 10:54 AM
#91
Posts: 1003
Not everyone want play consript spam. For me consrpts dont scale well. No weapon upgrade and weak armor. Grens with G43 rape them as no tomorow. In team games i use them only for merge and pick up OH superior support weapons. Penals was very good, but now the same.
Shock troops are very viable now versus pay2win OH commander and his insta vet.
Shock troops are very viable now versus pay2win OH commander and his insta vet.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
20 Dec 2013, 11:42 AM
#92
Posts: 4928
Not everyone want play consript spam. For me consrpts dont scale well. No weapon upgrade and weak armor. Grens with G43 rape them as no tomorow. In team games i use them only for merge and pick up OH superior support weapons. Penals was very good, but now the same.
Shock troops are very viable now versus pay2win OH commander and his insta vet.
Then they should make T1 more viable or improve the Cons in some way. T1 is pretty solid, I just personally don't like it because without the ZiS, you're seriously open to German Armoured attacks. T1 gives no AT, and doctrines only offer soft AT solutions.
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20 Dec 2013, 16:08 PM
#93
6 
Posts: 600
Not everyone want play consript spam. For me consrpts dont scale well. No weapon upgrade and weak armor. Grens with G43 rape them as no tomorow. In team games i use them only for merge and pick up OH superior support weapons. Penals was very good, but now the same.
Shock troops are very viable now versus pay2win OH commander and his insta vet.
Thing is not every ostheer player uses the OP commanders
And why would a doctrinal unit such as Shocks be coming that soon out?
2.5 armor on them is just way to much to deal with in the first 5 mins lol.
If they come later you can say the ostheer is prepared for them or has resources to adjust to it ( if he is not a complete retard).
I don`t say cons spamm is good, by no means no.... its boring as hell.
And you still can deal with early shocks, point is you will loose the whole map control before you can even bring something out that is a hard counter to them.
MGs are a soft counter not a hard counter.
20 Dec 2013, 17:49 PM
#94
Posts: 1003
Thing is not every ostheer player uses the OP commanders
In team games you meat this commanders everytime.
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
20 Dec 2013, 17:53 PM
#95
6 Posts: 600
In team games you meat this commanders everytime.
No, not really. Most of the times, yes, but not everytime.
And btw the discussion is not Shocks vs new commanders but Shocks vs OH no matter the commander choice
20 Dec 2013, 23:53 PM
#96
Posts: 747
Not everyone want play consript spam. For me consrpts dont scale well. No weapon upgrade and weak armor. Grens with G43 rape them as no tomorow. In team games i use them only for merge and pick up OH superior support weapons. Penals was very good, but now the same.
Shock troops are very viable now versus pay2win OH commander and his insta vet.
So you don't like conscripts, you prefer OH support weapons and you're sick of getting raped by g43s... how about playing Ostheer for a change?!
Seriously, g43s come out at 2 cps, why would you need any shocks earlier than that?!
21 Dec 2013, 01:07 AM
#97
Posts: 9
I see no legitimate counter, and flame halftrack would not work because it dies in 2 hits to an AT nade. Earlier today I had a shock troop vs 2 vet 2 gren squads with LMG upgrades, and the shock troop won.
21 Dec 2013, 01:20 AM
#98
Posts: 971
I only play as soviet too and I don't want shocks at 1 CP.
Cheap infantry should have more presence in the early game. Letting elite infantry appear at min 2 is boring.
Btw, I don't like con spam. My infantry's backbone are penals supported by cons for reinforcing, stealing weapons and dealing with light armor. Penals are good enough to deal with grens+LMG and with a bit of reinforcing they can win too against G43s.
Cheap infantry should have more presence in the early game. Letting elite infantry appear at min 2 is boring.
Btw, I don't like con spam. My infantry's backbone are penals supported by cons for reinforcing, stealing weapons and dealing with light armor. Penals are good enough to deal with grens+LMG and with a bit of reinforcing they can win too against G43s.
21 Dec 2013, 18:12 PM
#99
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
can two gren beat a shock ?
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21 Dec 2013, 18:29 PM
#100
Posts: 523
can two gren beat a shock ?
No, but one Pgren and Gren can, if you let the grens buffert the damage.
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