Shocktroops at 1CP

The armored car has always been utter shit except that one patch.

Shock Troops should simply be 2 CP. I also feel like Guards should be at 2 command points because their very early presence makes getting t2 vehicles pointless. Normally, I would be fine that both units should be at 1 cp, but the fact that they exist in almost every doctrine really hurts early game. And if the shock troops manage to get a MG42, then it's the ultimate anti infantry unit lol.

1 vs 1, I have no issues against them since I can make a flametrack, but in 2 vs 2 that's where the issues start to arise.

The armored car has always been utter shit except that one patch.

I totally agree, it needs to be much faster at-least when it's driving around.

Well microed snipers. Backed by one MG. Backed by two G43 grens.

You're welcome.

Well getting a mg42 is pointless since shocks take awhile to get suppressed and they can throw a smoke, but 1 sniper with two lmg or g43 grens are good against them. Just stay at range since shocks are poo poo at range and that's the distance where lmg42s are effective.

I still disagree that shocks at 1cp is a problem. Guards are 1cp is a bit too early though.

Snipers are the super hard counter to shocks. 40mp drain per pop, yes please. The German sniper fires MUCH faster than the soviet sniper, so it's a even harder counter than Rus sniper vs PGs.

Shocks are very cost effective against non-upgraded grens, yes. But, once you have LMGs on all your grens, shocks completely lose their effectiveness.

Shock troops totaly OP, kill all infantry running all the map...

And taking bullets of tanks and dont die...

Is a Alien tecnology!

I still disagree that shocks at 1cp is a problem. Guards are 1cp is a bit too early though.

Snipers are the super hard counter to shocks. 40mp drain per pop, yes please. The German sniper fires MUCH faster than the soviet sniper, so it's a even harder counter than Rus sniper vs PGs.

Shocks are very cost effective against non-upgraded grens, yes. But, once you have LMGs on all your grens, shocks completely lose their effectiveness.

Nobody asked for 1cp Shocks or Guards, nobody. It was a completely unneeded change that deteoriated 1v1 gamplay and pretty much destroyed 2v2+ gameplay.

1 CP is to early for the best infantry unit in the entire game to come out. 2 CP is more reasonable.

There as something about 1cp shocks that seems a little too strong. It is my favorite soviet strategy, and my least favorite to fight against when I am German.

That said, I am sure they wouldn't seem so effective if players handled them better. If you suspect shock spam, focus on overpowering conscripts in the early game. This means don't bother pitting one squad vs another, try to always have superior numbers. If you force retreats on one con squad at a time and force them to suffer losses, it gives you early map control. If they save for shocks they can easily call them right when 1cp hits. If you see shocks, don't bother fighting them. Back up, lure them to an MG, pin them, and fire from afar. Rush T2 and save all munitions for a FHT.

TLDR: Don't fight shocks on their terms dummy.

Nobody asked for 1cp Shocks or Guards, nobody. It was a completely unneeded change that deteoriated 1v1 gamplay and pretty much destroyed 2v2+ gameplay.

No one asked for a lot of the random changes (why were Stugs re-nerfed by increasing their target_size when they already suck donkey balls? Who knows!). Gameplay changes being better or worse comes down to personal preferences. I'm neutral on these changes in terms of gameplay. I find fighting against shocks to be more interesting than against 5 conscript squads (which is what it normally is), actually.

I merely state that shocks are NOT OP in 1v1 or 2v2 in my experiences as a German player.

Get a sniper. Keep it alive. Problem solved. Unfortunately the vet 1 ability for German sniper has no effect on shocks. I don't see the problem with 1cp shocks either, it changes the meta. Mg42s also perform well against the shock rush.

I predicted a long time ago, that the next cry for a OH buff was going to be the SC, once the MG42 had been buffed.

I can see that's where we're heading now...

I predicted a long time ago, that the next cry for a OH buff was going to be the SC, once the MG42 had been buffed.

I can see that's where we're heading now...

Towards better balance?

This comment is really not helpful, it is just how you want the game better for Soviet players.

1cp Shocks and Guards (which is a buff to Soviet early game) is not fun, or fair to play against.

I would also like to point out the Ost player is much more likely to lose his investment in his sniper to random crap (besides all the bugs) than it is to wipe a Shock squad. That means although snipers are the hard counter, they are still too vulnerable to deal with shocks.

If I lose the sniper (for whatever reason) before I kill ~440 mp, I am done, the game is effectively over. Not fun to play through on those games.

I merely state that shocks are NOT OP in 1v1 or 2v2 in my experiences as a German player.

I have to disagree with you about 2v2 considering how vulnerable if German snipers are in that game mode. Anything from easily viable sniper cars to two-player mortar spam will render any amount of German snipers instantly useless, not to mention that those units also very effective against German infantry in general due to small squad sizes (and precision strike) and are often built regardless.

As a side note, snipers have been glitched since the last patch - sometimes they refuse to fire and just sit there in cover. This has happened mostly to my Soviet snipers but only because I mainly 2v2 and I seldom build German snipers there, for the sake of my own sanity. This bug further adds to the problem when shocks get spammed in 2v2.

I'm on the same page as Gustav: 1v1 balance is important but Relic shouldn't throw all the other game modes out the window. After all, the 1v1 population is not exactly that big - not big enough to sustain the game by itself, anyway.

Could relic do something to make a 1 CP ability like Shocks cost 2 CPs in a 2v2? So in 1v1 it's 1cp, in 2v2 3v3 4v4 it's a 2cp ability... i like my idea

I tired of see a tank, firing in the foot of a infantry, and the infantry dont die!

What is this? Battlefield damages? :/

Soo, you waste time with a panzer for kill miserables infantry, and dont take the real objectives because this...

But the Grens die all with 1 granade by Shock God Troops...

With this tinners 1x1 maps is hard to control the Rus Spam... You lost in early game...

When you call tiger ace, you have 3,4 infantry, 2 tanks versus the all world...

But the Grens die all with 1 granade by Shock God Troops...

Post it. I play with ST and i never kill full squad with one grenade.

+1, doctrinal soviet infantry shouldn't come at 1 cp. It clearly has to be changed asap.

Post it. I play with ST and i never kill full squad with one grenade.

Russian Grenades in this game overall feel stronger than their German counterparts.

In most cases it is probably balance (impact vs timer, mass grenades vs one grenade), but regardless the PZG bundle grenade is more comparable to a Guard / ST grenade, let alone a Penal satchel charge.

All grenades are different. Actually on average, the German grenades are stronger. I think Soviet grenades just happen to be more plentiful. Guess it's a case of the grass is always greener on the other side, or perhaps it's the snow is always whiter?

Shock Troop grenades seem to be the same as Guards, but even if they're not, I think the reason why they seem stronger is that, much like PG grenades, Shocks and PGs do a lot of damage as they close in to grenade range, and continue to do after the grenade detonates.

Grenades work strangely in CoH2 in that, if you use them on a squad with no and very little damage on them, it seems to do nothing, even the health bar doesn't seem to budge. But, if you use a grenade on a unit with 1/4 or more of its health gone (ideally at least 1/2) the grenade will usually kill quite a few, or wipe the squad. This has a bit to do with criticals, I think.

This lets those close assault units like PGs and Shocks quickly apply that initial damage, which makes grenades more effective, then continue to apply damage to finish them off.

The same is true of the rifle grenade, which people like to laugh at, but I find is an effective finisher, or a starter.

Guards can probably stay at 1 CP, if they lose their initial AT Rifles, which become an upgrade once you meet some kind of requirement.

I love the German light vehicle play, even though I'm a primarily Soviet player, I love seeing those things used. So I'm fine with more adjustments to make those vehicles viable for a long time. However, the M3 Scout Car should also get the same treatment.

Shock Troops I'm just not sure to do with them. They're supposed to be breakthrough troops, based on the Engineer Sapper battalions used to break through German fortified lines. They're the kind of unit you use when German infantry get too upgraded. Because despite what German players say, German infantry can get to a critical mass that can wipe conscripts just as fast as artillery can kill the small German units. So 2 CP should be fine.