This is a great unit that adds long range AT superiority to the german force. In theory, this means you cannot be beaten because you can guard it with infantry and ostwinds etc.
My problem with it is that it's too easy for the soviets to dominate this thing with artillery. I think there's room for improving the pak 43.
In my opinion the katusha and the mortars should be maybe slightly less efficient vs the pak43. Remember the 17 pounder in vcoh? It was not decrewable by snipers or mortars. Only the stuka and shreks could take it out.
Now I dont think it should be as the 17 pounder. But it hardly is close to this today.
The way I see it, the main way to take out AT guns should be infantry and flanks. But even 2 katusha rocket hits stands to decrew the pak 43.
this is conjecture of course, but you don't see much pak43s in replays or in games. I believe its because you are so reliant on completely destroying any katushas and keeping his mortars occupied. A small buff the the surviability of the pak43 crew and emplacement would make it worth its cost more.
Pak43 buff
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24 Nov 2013, 16:55 PM
#1
Posts: 177
"Don't say anything, he will just keep on doing it."
24 Nov 2013, 17:31 PM
#2
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
The pak43 is extremely situational, and I have a hard time figuring out where it is best. It sucks up a large amount of pop that I can never reclaim, and can not damage infantry. Annoyingly it also fires at infantry instead of holding fire for tanks, and is as you stated, very vulnerable to indirect fire and RNG hits.
I would actually prefer this unit become the 88mm and allow me to use it a multipurpose area denial tool. At that point, it would not be allowed to continue shooting through buildings, which feels very gimmicky to me right now.
I would actually prefer this unit become the 88mm and allow me to use it a multipurpose area denial tool. At that point, it would not be allowed to continue shooting through buildings, which feels very gimmicky to me right now.
24 Nov 2013, 17:33 PM
#3
Posts: 3293
i really like that it shoots thru buildings think its a good thing but the biggest problem and one of the largest problems in the game currently is the targeting system for the entire game is awful and broken.
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24 Nov 2013, 18:12 PM
#4
Posts: 971
I would prefer Pak43 being much more cheaper and being unable to shot throught buildings and obstacles.
24 Nov 2013, 18:33 PM
#5
4 Posts: 312
It's fine now. It basically denies any tank coming in range and now you're complaining one of the few designed counters for this, artillery and indirect fire, is decrewing/damaging it? I build pak 43's frequently since the majority of soviet players will spam either SU-85s or T34s. Having just 1 pak 43 gives your infantry free roam to conduct anti infantry operations (which should be numerous at this point since you went for a pak 43 doctrine).
It has long range to keep it away from enemy fire, very good damage to effectively kill tanks, and easily re-crewable since it will usually sit behind your front lines (or just at them). What you're asking is to make this gun nearly unkillable except from the most well-executed flanks and powerful bombing runs.
It has long range to keep it away from enemy fire, very good damage to effectively kill tanks, and easily re-crewable since it will usually sit behind your front lines (or just at them). What you're asking is to make this gun nearly unkillable except from the most well-executed flanks and powerful bombing runs.
24 Nov 2013, 18:51 PM
#6
Posts: 95
Edit: Misread the question. Deleted my post.
24 Nov 2013, 18:52 PM
#7
Posts: 412
+1 to Vindicares post. It can be situational (better for some maps then others), many players don't expect it and if positioned right it forces your opponent to respond, e.g. behind the hedgerow on Langre.
Improved targeting and making it a non com unit would be great, but I doubt we'll see that soon.
Improved targeting and making it a non com unit would be great, but I doubt we'll see that soon.
24 Nov 2013, 18:53 PM
#8
Posts: 177
Not unkillable, but maybe it should take more than 1 set of hits to completely maul the thing? The item health of the thing also seems fairly low.
For instance, the defensive doctrine is built around being given room and having spare units to build a doom fort. But if the centerpiece of the doomfort is taken out by 1 arty strike, the denial becomes very flimsly
For instance, the defensive doctrine is built around being given room and having spare units to build a doom fort. But if the centerpiece of the doomfort is taken out by 1 arty strike, the denial becomes very flimsly
"Don't say anything, he will just keep on doing it."
25 Nov 2013, 01:23 AM
#9
Posts: 2561
The katyusha is actually already pretty crap against it unless it uses it's precision strike ability.
25 Nov 2013, 08:32 AM
#10
Posts: 59
I think it's quite alright at the moment. I usually use it as a surprise unit to kill heavy tanks or su 85's. All the time it survives after killing a heavy tank is just bonus, as it's already paid for itself then. The only thing i miss is a hold fire button, because now it gives itself away by shooting at infantry and thus ruining the surprise. Btw, if you keep a halftrack and a pio squad nearby and repair and recrew it after every barrage it easally survives one katyusha shooting constantly at it. A katyusha usually doesn't even decrew it in one barrage.
25 Nov 2013, 08:53 AM
#11
Posts: 476
Keep in mind it costs only 480 MP, thats only 120 more than a normal pak.
The best way to use it, is as a very unpleasant surprise for the enemy. If he notices that you have one, it should've already killed an enemy tank.
The Problem is if it misses the first 1-2 shots, and that it has no holdfire ability. So maybe more Accuracy for the first shot fired after 30 sec without firing?
Also maybe the Hp is too low (instantly destroyed, not recrewable.)
The best way to use it, is as a very unpleasant surprise for the enemy. If he notices that you have one, it should've already killed an enemy tank.
The Problem is if it misses the first 1-2 shots, and that it has no holdfire ability. So maybe more Accuracy for the first shot fired after 30 sec without firing?
Also maybe the Hp is too low (instantly destroyed, not recrewable.)
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
25 Nov 2013, 09:40 AM
#12
4 
Posts: 813 | Subs: 1
Keep in mind it costs only 480 MP, thats only 120 more than a normal pak.
This is why I use it. It is pretty cheap for the punch it delivers. Even if it goes down it usually has paid for itself. About getting destroyed by arty it feels about the same as any arty piece. The one thing I miss on it would be the hold fire stated earlier.
25 Nov 2013, 09:54 AM
#13
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedI think it could use a serious HP buff to the weapon itself, as can all Howis as well.
Im ok with it being easily decrewed, as is "traditional" for Osts universally weaker crews, but Id like to see a more clear distinction on what offmaps/indirects decrew it, and which ones can be used to flat out destroy it. A more clear distinction between dmging the soft targets which are the crew, and hard targets, which is the weapon emplacement itself.
I think for its cost and immobility, the weapon itself needs more durability, as do all Howies.
Also, Hold Fire, to retain surprise and make detecting it more difficult in terms of it revealing itself with shots.
Im ok with it being easily decrewed, as is "traditional" for Osts universally weaker crews, but Id like to see a more clear distinction on what offmaps/indirects decrew it, and which ones can be used to flat out destroy it. A more clear distinction between dmging the soft targets which are the crew, and hard targets, which is the weapon emplacement itself.
I think for its cost and immobility, the weapon itself needs more durability, as do all Howies.
Also, Hold Fire, to retain surprise and make detecting it more difficult in terms of it revealing itself with shots.
25 Nov 2013, 10:39 AM
#14
Posts: 747
Keep in mind it costs only 480 MP, thats only 120 more than a normal pak.
The best way to use it, is as a very unpleasant surprise for the enemy. If he notices that you have one, it should've already killed an enemy tank.
The Problem is if it misses the first 1-2 shots, and that it has no holdfire ability. So maybe more Accuracy for the first shot fired after 30 sec without firing?
Also maybe the Hp is too low (instantly destroyed, not recrewable.)
Yep, hold fire button and better initial accuracy would definitely be a good thing for all at-guns.
25 Nov 2013, 11:50 AM
#15
Posts: 604
What about increasing the crew size with 1~2 men that stand outside the sandbags? Because they don't receive the cover, they'd die to small arms fire very easily and it makes the Pak43 more resilient to lucky tank hits and precision strikes.
The Pak43 also didn't receive the buff to support weapons in which they increased the crew size for nearly everything else. Kill 2 men and the thing is decrewed.
The 3 crew men are often bunched up extremely closely together, making them basically insta-kill by a precision strike from a mortar. I'm fine with things like a Katyusha, an off-map artillery barrage, normal mortar barrages or a heavy artillery piece destroying or decrewing it but lucky tank hits and precision strikes currently feel a bit too good against it.
The Pak43 also didn't receive the buff to support weapons in which they increased the crew size for nearly everything else. Kill 2 men and the thing is decrewed.
The 3 crew men are often bunched up extremely closely together, making them basically insta-kill by a precision strike from a mortar. I'm fine with things like a Katyusha, an off-map artillery barrage, normal mortar barrages or a heavy artillery piece destroying or decrewing it but lucky tank hits and precision strikes currently feel a bit too good against it.
25 Nov 2013, 15:01 PM
#16
Posts: 58
i have the experience for lose a fully health Pak43 against one shot of one t70 fully health too. completely unfair hahaha, in that moment my pak43 miss two shots trying to kill him meanwhile the t70 comes to kill it.. aaaaand its gone! 480MP wasted.
i use to much this unit.. itsn't a big deal for soviet, 120 mortar vet 1, bye pak43, one direct shot form IS-2 or ISU, bye pak43, incendiary artillery, molotovs, shock troppers, katyusha.. etc..
this unit works fine while the enemy doesn't know about his existence, i mean only for suprise defense, so maybe i will add this things:
- agree with the comuntity, more accurate in the first shots
- vet2 gain camo <----- THIS!
- hold fire button
- like the 88 left artillery, this unit needs show a ratio of fire in the minimap
- the crew increase to 4 from 3, or, a pop decrease (i thinks its to much pop only for 3 fat men, hahaha)
as i said, for soviet, this unit its a joke if its reveal his position.. they have so many counters..
Thanks gl hf!
PD sorry for my english
i use to much this unit.. itsn't a big deal for soviet, 120 mortar vet 1, bye pak43, one direct shot form IS-2 or ISU, bye pak43, incendiary artillery, molotovs, shock troppers, katyusha.. etc..
this unit works fine while the enemy doesn't know about his existence, i mean only for suprise defense, so maybe i will add this things:
- agree with the comuntity, more accurate in the first shots
- vet2 gain camo <----- THIS!
- hold fire button
- like the 88 left artillery, this unit needs show a ratio of fire in the minimap
- the crew increase to 4 from 3, or, a pop decrease (i thinks its to much pop only for 3 fat men, hahaha)
as i said, for soviet, this unit its a joke if its reveal his position.. they have so many counters..
Thanks gl hf!
PD sorry for my english
9 Dec 2013, 22:04 PM
#17
Posts: 1162
The thing to bare in mind using pak43's, is that there are a lot of soviet doctrines which do not have arty strikes and also rely on T3.
That's the golden situation to use a pak43, because those strats usually centre around strong tanks. It's just learning which doc they are and picking yours later to counter.
That's the golden situation to use a pak43, because those strats usually centre around strong tanks. It's just learning which doc they are and picking yours later to counter.
9 Dec 2013, 22:13 PM
#18
Posts: 371
i produced tghe paK43 once in a team game and with all the doctrinal and nondocrinla abilities the soviets have its giant waste of resouces
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
9 Dec 2013, 22:44 PM
#19
Posts: 1162
Well Ive also been beaten quite handily a few times by pak43 because Ive not had off map arty, and Ive been using T3.
Like someone said, if you can hide it and use supprise to deal a nasty blow to an important tank, thats pretty huge for its cost.
Like someone said, if you can hide it and use supprise to deal a nasty blow to an important tank, thats pretty huge for its cost.
9 Dec 2013, 23:29 PM
#20
Posts: 665
I would remove it auto-targeting infantry (and give the same change to all AT guns). Or at least a hold fire. But apart from that it's fine. 480 MP (merely 120 more than a PAK) in exchange for a massive no-tank zone in the current T-34 focused meta? Yes please. Having hard counters in that situation is fine. Last thing we want is a repeat of the British emplacements of sillyness. It needs heavy support, sure, but that's a fair price to pay, and Soviet artillery is almost all doctrinal anyway. Don't pick the doctrine against an opponent that goes T4 is all.
Once the MG42 gets buffed it will also help protect it from infantry better. It IS a bit too vulnerable to Ooorah unless you got an Ostwind sitting on it or somesuch. But the unit doesn't need more durability or firepower and synergize very well with other Ostheer units as it is.
Once the MG42 gets buffed it will also help protect it from infantry better. It IS a bit too vulnerable to Ooorah unless you got an Ostwind sitting on it or somesuch. But the unit doesn't need more durability or firepower and synergize very well with other Ostheer units as it is.
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