US paratroopers
26 Apr 2024, 01:28 AM
#1
Posts: 378
US paratroopers m1 carbine fires like a bolt action rifle. The carbines should be reworked to have a high fire rate and dps curve changed to be a better close to mid range option.
26 Apr 2024, 05:59 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Apr 2024, 08:21 AM
#3
Posts: 1391
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
I see what OP is talking about. At close range the carbines put out 33 RPM where a standard panzergren K98 puts out 27 RPM.
Once you get to mid and long range, the carbines have a much higher RPM than bolt actions.
Still, the DPS curve is basically just that of a bolt action.
EDIT: Oops. I didn't realize DAKzergren K98 is such an outlier... Grenadier K98 close RPM is 19.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
26 Apr 2024, 08:37 AM
#4
Posts: 378
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Maybe do a little research before you spoutbs.
https://coh3stats.com/explorer/dps
The m1 carbine currently has higher dps than the garand at Max range, and lower than point blank range.
US paras should perform like DAK panzergrens, high dps close and worse far than garand. This way they're not just a worse rifleman with higher hp.
26 Apr 2024, 08:54 AM
#5
Posts: 378
So, exactly what they are now?
Rate of fire depends on range as well, closer they shoot faster.
Maybe do a little research before you spout bs.
https://coh3stats.com/explorer/dps
The m1 carbine currently has higher dps than the garand at Max range, and lower than point blank range.
US paras should perform like DAK panzergrens, high dps close and worse far than garand. This way they're not just a worse rifleman with higher hp.
26 Apr 2024, 14:55 PM
#6
Posts: 956
Paratroopers are meant to be used at mid-long range (esp with rdy-to-upgrade M1919A6s). Getting close is not recommended, especially with how much CQC stuff is out there. Idk if you're used to them in COH2 with Thompsons but they're a different unit in COH3.
Rangers exist for all your close-mid needs.
Rangers exist for all your close-mid needs.
For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
27 Apr 2024, 01:14 AM
#7
Posts: 378
Paratroopers are meant to be used at mid-long range (esp with rdy-to-upgrade M1919A6s). Getting close is not recommended, especially with how much CQC stuff is out there. Idk if you're used to them in COH2 with Thompsons but they're a different unit in COH3.
Rangers exist for all your close-mid needs.
I'm well aware of their current role. I think it makes no sense.
They fill the same role as SSF. I feel like they should be a stronger close range unit, it makes sense due to them having the m1 carbine.
27 Apr 2024, 07:42 AM
#8
Posts: 294
I'm well aware of their current role. I think it makes no sense.
They fill the same role as SSF. I feel like they should be a stronger close range unit, it makes sense due to them having the m1 carbine.
Well, you may end up waiting a long time for that particular change.
27 Apr 2024, 08:30 AM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I see what OP is talking about. At close range the carbines put out 33 RPM where a standard panzergren K98 puts out 27 RPM.
Once you get to mid and long range, the carbines have a much higher RPM than bolt actions.
Still, the DPS curve is basically just that of a bolt action.
EDIT: Oops. I didn't realize DAKzergren K98 is such an outlier... Grenadier K98 close RPM is 19.
DAK PGs also have 75% moving accuracy, just like any other mid-close range rifle unit in game.
They still lose to paras and rifles badly.
That being said, in CoH3 paras are NOT elite infantry, they are (not so much)later arriving mainline variant oriented at longer range combat(LMGs) contrary to rifles, and without any upgrades they can be used like rifles and have similar performance.
As already stated, if you feel you need CQC troops, get rifle BARs or rangers, paras are not CQC elites in this game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Apr 2024, 10:20 AM
#10
Posts: 1391
DAK PGs also have 75% moving accuracy, just like any other mid-close range rifle unit in game.
They still lose to paras and rifles badly.
Yeah... it wasn't an argument about performance. I was just talking about how fast they fire their rifles. For flavor's sake, at least, I feel like it doesn't make much sense that the difference between paratroopers and panzergrenadiers is 6 rounds per minute at spitting range lol. Surely there's a way to decrease rounds per minute and increase accuracy, ending up with the same DPS. But whatever.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
27 Apr 2024, 11:32 AM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Yeah... it wasn't an argument about performance. I was just talking about how fast they fire their rifles. For flavor's sake, at least, I feel like it doesn't make much sense that the difference between paratroopers and panzergrenadiers is 6 rounds per minute at spitting range lol. Surely there's a way to decrease rounds per minute and increase accuracy, ending up with the same DPS. But whatever.
Makes perfect sense really.
Rifles need to be aimed, you don't just mash trigger because gun allows you to.
Carbines and garands aren't really all that different in CoH games.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Apr 2024, 17:50 PM
#12
Posts: 1391
Makes perfect sense really.
Rifles need to be aimed, you don't just mash trigger because gun allows you to.
Carbines and garands aren't really all that different in CoH games.
Aiming is fairly intuitive at the distance which this game considers "close range".. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that when you're 5 meters away from someone, fine aim is way less important than being the first one to fire a shot (and keep firing until the other person can't). That's where the whole "semi-automatic" thing starts to shine.
Now, I didn't come here to have a discussion on balance. I was just agreeing with the OP (for flavor's sake, at the very least) that carbines and bolt actions having a comparable RPM at close range is kind of silly. Even if DAK panzergrens are supposed to be some kind of Über-elite supersoldaten hopped up on panzershokolade, they still have to contend with the fact that the magazines on their K98's are three times smaller than that of the M1, and yet again, they have to manually cycle the action after every shot. And you're telling me on top of all that, they have to really carefully pick out all their shots for some reason? Either the DAK panzergrens are working their guns like madmen and not aiming (so that thir rate of fire is even remotely close to that of the M1), or they're taking their time and aiming while the paratroopers are languidly firing their carbines like they're just having a fun day at the range. Either way it's silly.
So no, I very much disagree that it makes "perfect sense". What would make sense is if the panzergrens fired their rifles slower at close range. Easy peasy. Whatever you have to do to make the DPS the same as before, do it. Again, I'm just looking at this from an aesthetics standpoint; it does not make sense that in close quarters combat, the paratroopers and panzergrens are firing their rifles at each other at a comparable speed. It just doesn't.
And just to sidetrack on terms of balance, OP is absolutely right that the M1 Carbine has the DPS curve of a bolt action. It's almost identical to the DAK's K98.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
7 May 2024, 08:43 AM
#13
Posts: 378
And just to sidetrack on terms of balance, OP is absolutely right that the M1 Carbine has the DPS curve of a bolt action. It's almost identical to the DAK's K98.
This is exactly what I mean. Why even have M1 carbines in the game if they're just a worse M1 garand. M1 carbine should be the USF MP-44 equivalent, then it would have a good role and good flavour.
Then give paras a munition costing m2 carbine upgrade, sure there weren't many made, but neither were many FG42s made and every single fallschirmjäger has one.
I don't blame Katitof for thinking it makes perfect sense, he very clearly has no familiarity with firearms whatsoever.
7 May 2024, 11:17 AM
#14
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This is exactly what I mean. Why even have M1 carbines in the game if they're just a worse M1 garand. M1 carbine should be the USF MP-44 equivalent, then it would have a good role and good flavour.
Then give paras a munition costing m2 carbine upgrade, sure there weren't many made, but neither were many FG42s made and every single fallschirmjäger has one.
I don't blame Katitof for thinking it makes perfect sense, he very clearly has no familiarity with firearms whatsoever.
Carbines worked like that since forever in CoH.
The only deviation from that was RETs vet1 in CoH2.
You're arguing real life.
I'm arguing reality of the game series.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 May 2024, 16:49 PM
#15
Posts: 1391
Carbines worked like that since forever in CoH...You're arguing real life. I'm arguing reality of the game series.
I just don't personally think that "it's always been like that" is a good argument for something to continue being like that. Say, for example, CoH has always implemented the Bazooka as a weapon that you use against other infantry squads like it's Call of Duty or something, and since it's so effective at anti-infantry, they made it so that it's really bad against vehicles to compensate. Then, since they needed something to perform well against vehicles, they gave the riflemen a grenade slingshot upgrade that they can use against tanks.
So, the game is definitely balanced; the bazooka is a good anti infantry weapon that's bad against tanks to compensate, and then riflemen have a good anti-tank weapon if they need it. It makes sense in the game, and in this hypothetical it's always been that way, since CoH 1 even. Does it make sense though? Does it need to be that way? Not really.
Point of the absurd hypothetical is just to say that just because something is the status quo, it isn't necessarily the best way of doing things.
Although I said I wouldn't come in here to talk balance, I do want to say that I like the idea of the M1 carbines being some kind of MP44 equivalent. Realistically, I think that it would be fine if they just slowed down the RPM of DAK panzergrens' K98s (visual change only). If you do that, then M1 Carbine is more of an outlier compared to the other mainline weapons.
Maybe, just maybe, if there was some kind of M2 Carbine upgrade (like NaOCl mentioned), then the paratroopers would have access to some kind of "fire superiority" type ability that lets them use their M1s to their fullest potential.
Just for comparison;
Rapid firing a K98
Rapid firing an M1 Carbine
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
7 May 2024, 19:23 PM
#16
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Let me rephrase then:
Relic does not want it to be anything other then different Garand as evidenced by it being how it is in 3 different games over 20 years.
Relic does not want it to be anything other then different Garand as evidenced by it being how it is in 3 different games over 20 years.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
8 May 2024, 03:12 AM
#17
Posts: 1391
Let me rephrase then:
Relic does not want it to be anything other then different Garand as evidenced by it being how it is in 3 different games over 20 years.
Ok, cool. Relic may not want it, but if the audience wants it, then there's no reason not to advocate for it to be changed. Relic wanted blizzards in automatch, and the playerbase didn't. There are no more blizzards in automatch.
Now that we've established a precedent for Relic changing something after not originally "wanting it" that way, we are left with no reason to snuff out a conversation just because Relic isn't doing it at this very moment.
Glad we got everything worked out.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
8 May 2024, 03:47 AM
#18
Posts: 378
Carbines worked like that since forever in CoH.
The only deviation from that was RETs vet1 in CoH2.
You're arguing real life.
I'm arguing reality of the game series.
I'm actually arguing that the game reflect some real life elements.
The m1 carbine being an m1 garand clone pigeon-holes the weapon into a minor variant that is not unique. Changes as proposed by donofsandeigo would make the units far more unique and interesting to use.
DAK 98k is completely different from the Wehr Grenadier 98k, so this is something easily possible for Relic to implement, especially considering the life cycle that CoH3 will have.
9 May 2024, 09:26 AM
#19
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I'm well aware of their current role. I think it makes no sense.
They fill the same role as SSF. I feel like they should be a stronger close range unit, it makes sense due to them having the m1 carbine.
They are as strong as riflemen close to mid range and then get significantly better long range. Check it for youself here
Their slightly lower dps is ofset by having 10hp more per model. Then weapon upgrade favor riflemen at short range but you need 2xBars to outdps 2xLMG para even at close range.
The only drawback for para is that those LMGs don't fire on the move.
+ para get lock free nade.
9 May 2024, 18:21 PM
#20
Posts: 785
You don't understand, we have to make things unrealistic and retarded because.... just because, okay!??!!
CoH isn't allowed to be consistent or even slightly approach realism where it's possible without even significantly impacting balance because that would ummm... make the game bad!!! or something!!!
What do you mean nobody's buying or playing Company of Heroes anymore? Wtf!
CoH isn't allowed to be consistent or even slightly approach realism where it's possible without even significantly impacting balance because that would ummm... make the game bad!!! or something!!!
What do you mean nobody's buying or playing Company of Heroes anymore? Wtf!
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SHOUT IT OUT!
Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
Today, 02:36 AM
Today, 02:36 AM
Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
Last Thursday, 15:46 PM
Last Thursday, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
Last Thursday, 09:34 AM
Last Thursday, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
Last Thursday, 09:32 AM
Last Thursday, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
Last Thursday, 09:30 AM
Last Thursday, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy 
Last Thursday, 04:31 AM
Last Thursday, 04:31 AM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. 
.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
.24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! 
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. 
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
Rosbone: Relic wants Coh2 to fail so players will migrate to Coh3. It is hard to blame them since Coh3 sucks so bad. It needs all the help it can get.
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
04 Mar 2025, 02:53 AM
situsgbo777: Platform game online terpercaya dengan berbagai pilihan permainan seru dan peluang menang besar. Nikmati pengalaman bermain terbaik hanya di GBO777
03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
03 Mar 2025, 06:48 AM
aerafield: @OKSpitfire tbh I find it quite challenging to get the Pershing in time, having to suffer through the CoH3 tickrate and this endless bullshit meta of massive blobs going back and forth to the forward heal truck
01 Mar 2025, 17:24 PM
01 Mar 2025, 17:24 PM
OKSpitfire: Well... going to be seeing the Pershing a lot for a little while, that thing is a monster.
01 Mar 2025, 11:44 AM
01 Mar 2025, 11:44 AM
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