coastal defense

If Relic is reading this, can we please be done with this no-talent troll bullshit ?

The very moment Rifles will stop magically morphing into strongest infantry unit in game on a spot.

The entirety of the game sums up to no talent. The amount of micro mechanics (skill expression) that have been removed/nerfed. The ability to distance yourself from less skilled players is dramatically more difficult.

The very moment Rifles will stop magically morphing into strongest infantry unit in game on a spot.

The DAK main has a problem with a global upgrade? Really?

That this doctrine was created for a game that purports to encourage the use of micro, cover, garrisoning, arcs of fire, combat arms, etc.. is indefensible. In fact, when faced with this coastal defense nonsense, one becomes momentarily speechless in trying to describe how absolutely goddamn ludicrous it is. Yes, it can be beaten, but doing so becomes so grueling, grinding , and tedious that it robs one of any enjoyment whatsoever.

I'm honestly at the point where I just quit if someone plays this. I'd rather find a more enjoyable game where players are more creative with their gameplay.

The entirety of the game sums up to no talent. The amount of micro mechanics (skill expression) that have been removed/nerfed. The ability to distance yourself from less skilled players is dramatically more difficult.

I would have to agree. I'm also tired of hearing, "well, if X is so easy to play and Y is harder, then why don't you just play X?" Because I like a challenge and I like to be rewarded for improving !

The DAK main has a problem with a global upgrade? Really?

Last time I checked, USF didn't had any manpower problems while needing 2000mp for said upgrades.

I like to think Relic has a plan. They want each faction to play different. And each faction should require a certain amount of skill.

So there should be a really easy to play faction and a really hard to play faction.

But after Coh3, I am not so sure Relic had a plan.

I like to think Relic has a plan. They want each faction to play different. And each faction should require a certain amount of skill.

So there should be a really easy to play faction and a really hard to play faction.

But after Coh3, I am not so sure Relic had a plan.

Yeah, easy to play shouldn't equal easy to play AND win 90% of the time in team games. Like I said, CD is so mind-boggingly ridiculous because even if one does all the right things in terms of tactics and unit production, it just. doesn't. MATTER. There's either a slow forward creep with bunkers or bunker stall into late game heavies/ armour blob. Any breach in the bunker wall is invariably met with another line of bunkers. Once you retreat from that, it will re-appear in moments like some malignant fungus.

Last time I checked, USF didn't had any manpower problems while needing 2000mp for said upgrades.

Oh stop it. "Last time I checked" the upgrade youre whining about also costs 40 fuel. And not sure why your bundling every single armory upgrade together?

Are you actually attempting to suggest that BAR tech is equivalent to the combined strength of every single DAK armory upgrade? If not than drop the exaggeration and relax.

None of this has anything to do with coastal anyway...

To add, I personally think coastal is only crazy when playing against arranged teams. Against randoms or in a 1v1 it doesnt feel that hard to deal with, but you could say that about many strats

Oh stop it. "Last time I checked" the upgrade youre whining about also costs 40 fuel. And not sure why your bundling every single armory upgrade together?

Are you actually attempting to suggest that BAR tech is equivalent to the combined strength of every single DAK armory upgrade? If not than drop the exaggeration and relax.

None of this has anything to do with coastal anyway...

To add, I personally think coastal is only crazy when playing against arranged teams. Against randoms or in a 1v1 it doesnt feel that hard to deal with, but you could say that about many strats

Typical dak late game resources is struggling to accumulate 200mp and sitting on 200+ fuel.
Yeah, I do consider US upgrades to be conomically superior in most MP efficient army in the whole game that gets cheaper reinforcements, free reinforcements and does not require pumping all possible upgrades into its infantry to make it competitive.

And yes, I agree, coastals are much more intense when in AT, bunker spam is a problem only against players who don't respond to them, real shine of the battlegroup is setting up defensive line, automatic healing, repairs and def buff at critical point on the map that can't be destroyed, only decapped is strong AF.

Bunkers are issue only against people who can't play properly.

Tho auto building bunkers are just pure cheese, same with auto building ranger FRP, I have no opinion on Arsenal as I've seen it only once.

Bunker should cost popcap after picking the battlegroup. Not much but enough to punish a bunkerspam in lategame. The main problem for teamgames is, if you play in a random team and the enemy goes for bunkerspam - as soon as someone fails to pressure there and the enemy is able to build up his bunkerspam, this VP will be a huge problem to get back in lategame with all the atbunker/mg covering each other + additional units.

Than its basically gg no matter how hard or good you played in your area. You dont bring this bunkerline to fall which doesnt cost popcap, which are cheap as fuck in lategame and even if you dominated your part of the map and have a larger tankforce. You switch north and just face 2x p4 and 5x atbunker covered with mgbunker.

But this only exist if someone really just chills and let the WH player do what he wants and build his stuff.


my last 4on4 against someone with coastline BG and a serious elo was place 6 1800 elo in a 4on4 in the south of monte cavo.
And in this 1on1 situation right from the start, it is relative easy to destroy any "westwall" ambitions. Im something around 1400 elo with brits and only play randomteam. the enemy was a arranged team with viewers of helpinghans with him and the rank6 player in 4on4.

So i would say with rank6 and over 760 4on4 matches ( 600 of them won ) with WH against my "here and there" matches with brits if i want to play stress-free, it really isnt that hard to dominate against a coastline BG player.
Only exception is against a good team with teamspeak which doesnt allow this 1on1 situation ( which will be lost in most cases anyway because of the horrible matchmaking - whenever i see a real team and they are elo 1700 - 1800 and above, usually your teammates are 900 - 1000 - 1100) and if a teammate give up on one side of the map for a while to switch to mid, than in lategame you cant reach the VP anymore because the bunkerspam got crazy without any pressure.
But in both cases, this matches are lost anyway because of other reasons. In 80% of the matches, the huge elo difference between the teams is, what this game hurts the most.

A little popcap cost for the bunkerspam could not hurt, it should not be possible to have theoretical 20 - 30 bunkers which fully secure a VP and still a fulle force of inf and tanks to fight for other VPs. It is just the "possible" mass of bunkers without any damage in the popcap, which is crazy.
but overall allies have so much stuff to non-stop pressureing any attempt to build up a bunkerspam.
If the pressure isnt there, than it is the same with any other strategy.

Typical dak late game resources is struggling to accumulate 200mp and sitting on 200+ fuel.
Yeah, I do consider US upgrades to be conomically superior in most MP efficient army in the whole game that gets cheaper reinforcements, free reinforcements and does not require pumping all possible upgrades into its infantry to make it competitive.

I have no idea why you're continuing this but feel free to stop anytime. Ive already told you i think DAKs design is terrible. I appreciate Relics attempt at making them unique, but i think DAK just snowballs the enemy or gets snowballed very often. Not as much of an even back and forth as with other factions

I'll just say to get grenades, bars, and the reinforce discount is a combined 550mp AND 95 fuel. How exactly do you expect riflemen to perform after that investment? I do think the ISC could use some tweaks, but mostly because the other 2 SCs are dogshit in comparison

Bunker should cost popcap after picking the battlegroup.

I thought bunkers in coh2 shoulda had pop, let alone the craziness in coastal bunkers. Its very brainless in team games where the resource cost isnt as inhibiting to spam them

Bunkers are issue only against people who can't play properly.

this is wrong, see my original post, as well as all the other ones in this thread.

Bunker should cost popcap after picking the battlegroup. Not much but enough to punish a bunkerspam in lategame. The main problem for teamgames is, if you play in a random team and the enemy goes for bunkerspam - as soon as someone fails to pressure there and the enemy is able to build up his bunkerspam, this VP will be a huge problem to get back in lategame with all the atbunker/mg covering each other + additional units.

Than its basically gg no matter how hard or good you played in your area. You dont bring this bunkerline to fall which doesnt cost popcap, which are cheap as fuck in lategame and even if you dominated your part of the map and have a larger tankforce. You switch north and just face 2x p4 and 5x atbunker covered with mgbunker.

But this only exist if someone really just chills and let the WH player do what he wants and build his stuff.

well yeah, and now you're talking about maintaining 100% constant pressure, to the exclusion of anything else. Taking your eyes off that for one moment, to help a partner, etc...means that now you can forget that VP. It's lost to you. Trying to retake it will only hasten your loss, as you will lose everything you throw at it.

A little popcap cost for the bunkerspam could not hurt, it should not be possible to have theoretical 20 - 30 bunkers which fully secure a VP and still a fulle force of inf and tanks to fight for other VPs. It is just the "possible" mass of bunkers without any damage in the popcap, which is crazy.
but overall allies have so much stuff to non-stop pressureing any attempt to build up a bunkerspam.
If the pressure isnt there, than it is the same with any other strategy.

Well no, it's not the same as any other strategy. Like I said, a lack of pressure in this case means an exponential increase in difficulty to the point where it's impossible for the average player.

2007: British are released in Coh1. Their static gameplay with trucks blocking points and especially emplacements that are resistant to small arms fire kills any enjoyment of the game.

2014: British are released for Coh2. Since nothing was learned their emplacements receive a "brace" ability which kills any enjoyment of the game.

2015: British get their emplacement commander for Coh2. It is soon commonly known as the "cancer commander" and if there even remained a little spark of enjoyment left in the game it is now dead.

2024: Germans receive a commander that focuses on Bunker spam. I wonder how that might influence the game...

2007: British are released in Coh1...

This really struck me as well. Every time that they shoehorn these static, turtling units and tactics into the game, almost everybody universally hates coming up against it in games. It's almost certainly a skill issue on some level, because once it gets properly balanced it hardly ever works at high level play, but the devs seem determined to have some version of it in every iteration of the game. I have no idea why. Just a lack of unique ideas for different factions?

This really struck me as well. Every time that they shoehorn these static, turtling units and tactics into the game, almost everybody universally hates coming up against it in games. It's almost certainly a skill issue on some level, because once it gets properly balanced it hardly ever works at high level play, but the devs seem determined to have some version of it in every iteration of the game. I have no idea why. Just a lack of unique ideas for different factions?

Casuals love this playstyle and will not think twice before paying to get it.

Casuals love this playstyle and will not think twice before paying to get it.

Why doesn't relic then make it Skirmish and Compstomp only?

Why doesn't relic then make it Skirmish and Compstomp only?

Cuz then they get less money. Pretty confident fewer ppl would buy em if you cant use em in multi