Sega EULA Update & lawsuits

Know your right, With the New EULA (Noticee it came out a soon as reviews went negative):
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/comments/12uav1p/know_your_right_with_the_new_eula_noticee_it_came/:

A few points;
First,
You can always sue Sega for breaking consumer rights protection laws.
That’s why it’s essential to which country you’re from and knowing which consumer rights you have.

As a rule of thumb, bait and switch marketing are false advertising/consumer fraud which are illegal in multiple countries.
Is CoH3 riddled with false advertising? I believe so.
Also, don’t matter much if Sega did this intentionally or not.
Sega ignorance/incompetence is not a legal excuse for breaking consumer rights.

Will fans grow a backbone and sue? Who knows.
Even if fans don’t win a class action lawsuit, it’s bad Optics for Sega, and it can terminate marketing publicity stunts (but not limited to) such as “working with fans” false advertising.

For recent investigations into bait-and-switch marketing, we have Diablo Immortal MTX.
These investigations are relevant as Sega has done ZERO post-launch marketing for Battlegroups MTX. This could terminate mobile FTP plans for Battlegroups MTX.

Diablo Immortal False Advertising Investigation, POSTED JANUARY 12, 2023:

https://classlawdc.com/2023/01/12/diablo-immortal-false-advertising-investigation/
Migliaccio & Rathod LLP is currently involved in the Diablo Immortal False Advertising Investigation, for Activision-Blizzard’s false advertisement of the effect of a purchasable, in-game item in Diablo Immortal. The “Blessing of the Worthy” legendary gem, purchasable in bundles that could cost over $100, changes the description of its effect in vastly different, and detrimental, ways as the gem is leveled up. At level two, the item’s description that the player has a chance to deal damage equal to their maximum health is changed at level three to state that the player has a chance to deal damage equal to their current health. This means that rather than dealing a fixed amount of damage equal to one’s maximum health, the amount of damage that could be dealt instead changes with the player’s current health and is therefore less than previously understood, since the effect is only triggered when the player takes damage.

Rather than offer refunds or some form of compensation, Blizzard has instead responded to the Blizzard community by stating that they will change the item’s text description to reflect its actual effect, at level three. This practice essentially amounts to a bait-and-switch, since a purchasable item was advertised with one effect that players wanted and ended up with something completely different.

Thank you to our friends at the Communications Workers of America (CWA) for bringing this issue to our attention and their tremendous work unionizing software developers, among others.

Did you purchase the Blessing of the Worthy legendary gem?

If so, we would like to hear from you. Please complete the following online questionnaire so we may evaluate your potential claim(s):

Also knowing Sega + Gearbox shady history with this game;
https://store.steampowered.com/app/49540/Aliens_Colonial_Marines_Collection/

This lawsuit is well-known from 2014;
https://www.polygon.com/2014/8/11/5993509/aliens-colonial-marines-class-action-settlement

Sega to tentatively pay out $1.25M in Aliens suit while Gearbox fights on

In recent times we have;
Sega Key Master Game ‘Rigged,’ Claims $5M Class Action Lawsuit, July 13, 2021:
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/video-games/sega-key-master-game-rigged-claims-5m-class-action-lawsuit/

Such Sega Arcade machines are non-regulated gambling for kids, a marketing scam with terrible payouts.

GAMES THAT PULLED A BAIT AND SWITCH ON FANS;
https://www.svg.com/142369/games-that-pulled-a-bait-and-switch-on-fans/

So, yes. Sega has good reasons to fear lawsuits and new gambling audits/gambling oversights as their Casino Operations have been caught doing predatory business practices.
Also, these marketing scams are nothing new and go back decades.
In terms of business ethics, as predators are preying on kids, there is a line in the sand that goes from bad to evil.
As a company, Sega has crossed that line in the sand.

In my country, we have a big business in Lego for kids;
https://www.lego.com/

Sega? So you want to talk about business ethics and "Code of Heroes"?
Get your house in order, until then. STFU!.

Corporate translator;
Code of Heroes = build me an army worthy of Mordor (corporate shills/lapdogs/praetorian guards).

That's how things end up when publishers try to suck off investors and stock markets instead of delivering a quality game to players.

Imagine being so detached from your customers that you actually build a wall to defend yourself against them, yet being completely incapable to reflect on why.

Can someone give me a brief summary on what is happening?

Can someone give me a brief summary on what is happening?

SEGA tries to shield itself from US lawsuits over CoH3 state.

Can someone give me a brief summary on what is happening?

SEGA enacts new EULA trying to prevent lawsuits, consumers confirm that they won't sue SEGA. Assumed reason could be law suits due to false advertising. On reddit some commenters claim that the phrases are standard and can be found in many EULAs also outside of SEGA games.
If you're in the EU (and probably Europe generally), you don't need to care. EULAs are basically toilet paper in a legal dispute anyway.
Timing of the update is best case "unfortunate", but might signal SEGA expecting lawsuits and/or worst case dropping the game.

Probably nothing much will happen to SEGA even if they'd completely drop CoH3. For an individual, the financial risk is not worth suing over a 60 Euro game. Class action lawsuit might be more realistic if enough people come together, but even then I guess it will be a lengthy and complicated case.

EU laws;
Unfair contract terms:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.htm
https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/consumer-protection-law/unfair-commercial-practices-law/unfair-commercial-practices-directive_en

Under EU law, standard contract terms used by traders have to be fair. This doesn't change if they're called "terms and conditions" or are part of a detailed contract that you actually have to sign. The contract is not allowed to create an imbalance between your rights and obligations as a consumer and the rights and obligations of sellers and suppliers.

If you find unfair terms in your contract
Contract terms that are unfair under EU law have no legal or binding force on consumers.

Examples of unfair business practices include untruthful information to consumers or aggressive marketing techniques to influence their choices.

Corporations do not make law (private contracts, yes), the government does.

SEGA tries to shield itself from US lawsuits over CoH3 state.

What aspect about it's state are worthy of a class action? Devils in the detail.

SEGA enacts new EULA trying to prevent lawsuits, consumers confirm that they won't sue SEGA. Assumed reason could be law suits due to false advertising. On reddit some commenters claim that the phrases are standard and can be found in many EULAs also outside of SEGA games.
If you're in the EU (and probably Europe generally), you don't need to care. EULAs are basically toilet paper in a legal dispute anyway.
Timing of the update is best case "unfortunate", but might signal SEGA expecting lawsuits and/or worst case dropping the game.

Probably nothing much will happen to SEGA even if they'd completely drop CoH3. For an individual, the financial risk is not worth suing over a 60 Euro game. Class action lawsuit might be more realistic if enough people come together, but even then I guess it will be a lengthy and complicated case.

Ignore my above post. You think they'll shut down the servers? Man this is so disappointing... I know this game is already good and can get so much better. I wish it wasn't so 'cool' to shit on everything.

I wish it wasn't so 'cool' to shit on everything.

I agree. Relic took a massive shit right on our faces.

Ignore my above post. You think they'll shut down the servers? Man this is so disappointing... I know this game is already good and can get so much better. I wish it wasn't so 'cool' to shit on everything.

Maybe it's "cool" to shit on things, but I wish it wasn't "cool" to get pissed on and pretend it's raining. I was in the latter all the way from multiplayer alpha even till a week after release. Now, I'm the former. And I can't comprehend why there are still people gargling with Relic's urine. It was released in a crappy state. It doesn't deserve stunning reviews until the devs EARN it. They're slowly but surely improving the game, maybe it's even halfway to the state that it should have been on release. Either way, it's not there yet, and the game deserves to get shit on until it is.

God forbid they drop CoH3 now, and leave it like it is; the malformed, prematurely born fetus of a great game. They should never live it down.

I see zero reason as to why the reviews will remain negative after they improve the game. I am waiting with bated breath to come back to a CoH 3 worth the money that I pre-ordered it with. On that day, I will be the first to change my review to positive.

What aspect about it's state are worthy of a class action? Devils in the detail.

Probably asking full price for a game that is nowhere near ready.

Ignore my above post. You think they'll shut down the servers? Man this is so disappointing... I know this game is already good and can get so much better. I wish it wasn't so 'cool' to shit on everything.

I don't think so at the moment, I just wanted to include the worst possible outcome since also Cobra mentioned it.
Look at DoW3: the game was economically a complete failure (albeit technically in a better state) and in player numbers way worse than CoH3. Relic dropped it after 10 months. I wouldn't expect Relic to drop CoH3 in the next months. As long as plaErs stay, they can make money, and they will develop the game.
They might downscale their plans though if they don't see enough people coming back.
Obviously it is possible that support could completely cease, but I would be highly suprised at current player count. In the future maybe, but not in the next months.

And I can't comprehend why there are still people gargling with Relic's urine.

I'm definitely going down with this sinking ship, after putting so many hours into coh2 it's refreshing to play with fresh tactics and abilities. One mans trash is another man's treasure. I even liked the blizzards in coh2 :3.

It's a shame cause if we have to go back to coh2; the game has seemingly unfixable bugs. The amount of bug splats is crazy.

I will gurgle that urine until it turns to gold for the rest of you! Someone has to...

I will gurgle that urine until it turns to gold for the rest of you! Someone has to...

Many important chemistry discoveries were made because people thought urine contained gold and they wanted to extract it. True story.

I don't think so at the moment, I just wanted to include the worst possible outcome since also Cobra mentioned it.
Look at DoW3: the game was economically a complete failure (albeit technically in a better state) and in player numbers way worse than CoH3. Relic dropped it after 10 months. I wouldn't expect Relic to drop CoH3 in the next months. As long as plaErs stay, they can make money, and they will develop the game.
They might downscale their plans though if they don't see enough people coming back.
Obviously it is possible that support could completely cease, but I would be highly suprised at current player count. In the future maybe, but not in the next months.

Here's the thing about Dawn of War III - player retention was not nearly as bad of an issue as it seems, at least in terms of the immediate comparison to Company of Heroes 3. It averaged around 1000-1500 players regularly (which Company of Heroes 3 is currently nosediving to), and it had some 6000 return for the Annihilation update, which also came with free extra content. The lows attained after that can be attributed to Relic's announcement of straight-up murdering the game. So it's not like the community wasn't paying attention to the game - if anything the situation is eerily similar to what we have going on right now.

What made it a real economic failure? The Skulls system. This drew a mix of praise and ire in the lead-up and immediate aftermath of the release, but basically, the plan was to have an in-game shop where Relic stated that everything (up to and including new factions, according to at least one post from Relic) would be purchasable with the earnable in-game currency, which you could also buy in packs from the Steam storefront. Like most good Relic ideas, it came out half-baked - you could earn Skulls for most of the first months of the game, and the amounts you got from just playing the game made the purchasable packs irrelevant. I can't remember if it was killed before or during the Annihilation update, but essentially the system was excised completely, probably for one particular reason - it's not exploitatively profitable. It was even more liberal than Company of Heroes 2's system, which was nascent itself at the time. The decision to take the game behind the shed and shoot it did not come far behind, predictably.

Fast forward to Company of Heroes 3, and the monetization scheme has definitely become more exploitative, spurred, no doubt, by the relative success of microtransactions in Company of Heroes 2. We're already almost done with the PR cycle whereby they release the in-game store, people react accordingly, predatory behaviour is gradually normalized, etcetera. Relic can't help but do things half-baked and half-blind, though, and, I think, have failed to account for the fact that Company of Heroes 2 makes money off of microtransactions mostly because it's a game people actually want to play, with a thriving multiplayer scene. Putting the microtransaction store in the game several years into its lifespan was a stroke of unwitting genius on Relic's part, actually, and you'll see very few people complaining over that particular system, generally because they're satisfied with the state of the game.

People called Dawn of War III an attempt at a quick cash-in on a half-baked property, and I think that's probably partially true - it was definitely not given the time to marinade that it needed, although it was an INFINITELY superior game at launch to what we're currently looking at. Thing is, I see the same symptoms here - and I see it going equally poorly, what with Relic already (unsuccessfully) trying to curry favour by walking back the scale of predatory microtransactions. The damage has already been done, though, and I can guarantee that with a customization option missing from launch and paltry offerings in the initial stage of its rollout, coupled with the game being, you know, shit, the in-game store is probably just not making the money that the C-suite people want to see.

Now, Company of Heroes does have a few things going for it that Dawn of War doesn't - for one, Warhammer fans are notoriously persnickety, and there was a concerted effort to trash the game on aesthetics alone (not totally unjustified but alas) before it was even playable, among other things. Company of Heroes is easier to attract average people to, being based in a setting common across genres, and has both diehard fans and Nazi enthusiasts as committed customers (Relic, somewhat ironically, has alienated the latter with the Rommel bait-and-switch, something hilarious worthy of an analysis all to itself). I can't know what's going on at Relic - I have no insider information. I do know, however, how the C-suite operates, since the sole purpose of an MBA (and a corporation in general) is basically to make you a predictable component. And if the higher-ups were more than willing to torch their longest-running RTS series, I can easily see it happening to their second-longest-running. Keep in mind that the difference in initial sales success is offset by the vastly increased overhead at the Relic of 2023 compared to 2017. I'd like to say that I hope I'm wrong but I'll probably be happy if this game, and Relic in general, die completely, in the hopes that someone will step up to fill the void with something actually worth playing.

...

You make a lot of good points, many of which I agree to as well.
Just a few comments: DoW3 wasn't the game fans wanted. It was not the gritty bloody RTS that the previous titles were. Also, player numbers two months post release were worse than current CoH3. DoW3 retained about 7% of players as in the peak hours. This would correspond to CoH3 having 2500 players in the absolute maximum, but there were 5700 last weekend. CoH3 is doing badly, but not to the like of DoW3.
Also, the core of CoH3 is pretty much what most players want. If CoH3 had the release polish of DoW3, the playerbase would have been pretty happy.
Next, I don't know how much Relic has grown since 2017 and how much is overhead and actual devs. By their current behaviour I guess way too much overhead. Anyway, Relic back then pretty much ceased development of CoH2. Currently, they also have AoE4 as post launch support and probably get decent money from microsoft for it. The additional overhead can't be fully attributed to CoH3 alone, and I guess AoE4 brings in good revenue.

Overall, the current monetization and priority setting in CoH3 points into a very bad direction. But it is too early to say if they will cease support or not. If Relic deems the game to be not recoverable, I guess they will low pevel support it and just leave it in a by-then mediocre state.

I'd like to say that I hope I'm wrong but I'll probably be happy if this game, and Relic in general, die completely, in the hopes that someone will step up to fill the void with something actually worth playing.

That's 100 % deserved.

The problem with Sega higher ups is not only corporate greed, but overrated marketing clowns who make foolish decisions.

Example;
What killed DoW3 as DOA was not only Relic, but a defective in-game store and progression-based economy (called Skull currency).

Dawn of War 3 ditches its in-game currency, Sep 29, 2017;
https://www.pcgamesn.com/warhammer-40k-dawn-of-war-3/dawn-of-war-3-in-game-skulls-currency-removed

As a marketing team behind DoW3 they had one job. Don't even have to reinvent the wheel and can just copy paste any functional in-game store/progression based economy.
Simple right? Not for Sega.
3 Relic games in a row (CoH2, DoW3, CoH3) and each one with various flaws to it’s monetization model that should not exists for a big budget RTS game.

Had the DoW3 monetization schemes not been such a dumpster fire, Sega could have kept the game on life support with a skeleton crew.

Right now I’m playing a small FTP WW2 card game called, KARDS.
https://www.kards.com/

The studio size is only 23 devs and founded by industry veterans with years of experience
This include;
https://1939games.com/about
Gudmundur, former project lead behind EvE Online/CCP games
https://www.linkedin.com/in/gu%C3%B0mundur-kristj%C3%A1nsson-2b5611b9/

Ivar Kristjansson, former CEO & CFO EvE Online/CCP games;
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivar-kristjansson-779b/details/experience/

Keeping the small studio-vibe is very much a choice as the industry veterans could easily grow the studio if they wanted to (just look at the history of CCP/EvE Online).

Just in terms of in-game store, KARDS blows CoH3 out of the water.
The WW2 art and background music is also better than CoH3;


Let’s me emphasize;
23 devs studio vs Relic 300+ devs studio supported by Sega’s multi-billion company.

Sega/Relic higher ups are gaslighting everyone that they are doing a “great job” with the CoH IP.
When in reality CoH3 can’t even compete with a PC/mobile team such as KARDS..

https://geekculture.co/player-influenced-development-makes-company-of-heroes-3-a-true-rts-for-the-community/:

“Company of Heroes 3 is by far the biggest game in the franchise’s history. We’re eager to see players pursuing their own strategies on the dynamic campaign map and having unpredictable experiences in skirmish and multiplayer. We like to say “every battle tells a story”, and that’s more true than ever in CoH3,” Mele emphasised, and we couldn’t agree more.

Uncomfortable truth?
As early access game (current state of the game), this shitshow is perhabs one of the biggest marketing scams in the history of RTS (steam sales).

>>Relic/Sega business meeting; "Nod or no bonus this year";