CoH3 mod - reBALANCE Tuning Pack

Some dude in my discord or maybe a steam thread was saying that this should be done. My question is why? Why would you turn the AT upgrade completely useless? In CoH 2, literally every infantry AT weapon does deflection damage, but it's especially important for AT rifles because their penetration is complete shit.

Well pointless to discuss panzerjaeger squad (which need schreck upgrade btw ones T3 is build), so lets look at the british.

1) Its a 5 men squad, which retains good AI damage on top of the AT damage
2) Single Boys squad is still more then enough to counter\force away LVs.
3) UKF has late game counter-measures for any armor be it guards or 17 pounder
4) There is absolutely 0 reason for mainline to have AT capabilities, while retaining AI capabilities
5) Tommies still have access to 2 separate AI grades and have access to snare and long range nade.
6) AT rifles still can reliably penetrate rear\side armor.

In CoH2, Guards were elite expensive 360MP inf, locked behind commanders. Penals were as well the most expensive mainline and on top giving them PTRSes made them useless against inf and you didnt have access to any AT without back teching or until tanks. CoH3 UKF have non of these problems.

And objectively as UFK you only need 1 boys rifle squad against early flame DAK clowncar, but you might as well just use dingo. Yet they are spammed because even after official nerf then are still anti-everything upgrade.

I would even say, that ROF increase is not needed, because realistically AT rifles are supposed to be LV counter, and they are doing it just fine.

And objectively as UFK you only need 1 boys rifle squad against early flame DAK clowncar, but you might as well just use dingo. Yet they are spammed because even after official nerf then are still anti-everything upgrade.

Exactly. Why would you buy infantry AT that will get obsoleted 4 minutes into the future when you can just get bren and a dingo.

W/e, if that's the way they want to le balans the brit AT rifle blobs, then so be it ig. I still find it to be a really tough sell of an upgrade now that it's not likely to even tickle mediums.

They should get some kind of cool vet 3 ability like a tread shot or something that can temporarily stop a tank from moving. Idk. Anything to make it worthwhile.

Exactly. Why would you buy infantry AT that will get obsoleted 4 minutes into the future when you can just get bren and a dingo.

W/e, if that's the way they want to le balans the brit AT rifle blobs, then so be it ig. I still find it to be a really tough sell of an upgrade now that it's not likely to even tickle mediums.

They should get some kind of cool vet 3 ability like a tread shot or something that can temporarily stop a tank from moving. Idk. Anything to make it worthwhile.

Why not? Why would you want to get panzerjaegers if you can just have mines\AT gun\marder?

You have this upgrade as an option to allow yourself stale\skip at gun\invest more into other things without loosing inf presence and make it easier on your eco.

Its imo not supposed to be equally good chose over scopes\bren. Not to mention that both Wehr and DAK especially, always have targets which are easily penetrated by AT rifles.

I guess boys "cool feature" is that they are still fully capable fighting squad, while PJ have utility and support abilities since they are not.

Why not? Why would you want to get panzerjaegers if you can just have mines\AT gun\marder?

If you're talking about the AT rifle infantry, then it's probably because they can be upgraded with an LMG plus they can repair tanks plus they've got the gas shot ability. But realistically if they aren't going to be able to do any damage to allied mediums up, it's pretty much like having a squad missing a model you can never reinforce back to full health. Imo they're also going to be a dead weight.

It's like the M-42 in coh2 lol. You can fight off some lights, but then after the mediums come out the best it can do is support infantry in killing other infantry. And it can't even do that well.

The difference being that we're talking an actual mainline infantry squad that has to give up on two actually good upgrades just to fight off an LV in the early game.

It's like a jack of all trades but not actually because it can only perform one role in an okay fashion until it can't, and then it's stuck performing the other role it's mediocre at for the rest of the game.

I'm just trying to find someone to give me reasoning as to why this upgrade won't immediately become niche and unused.

I mean, how powerful are boys' sections anyways? I really don't see this upgrade being anywhere close to brens in terms of combat ability, but maybe I'm wrong.

I understand that people spammed them because they countered vehicles *plus* they could deal damage to infantry, but when we're talking a side by side comparison AGAINST INFANTRY, how does the AT rifle hold up?

Because that squad is going to become anti infantry once mediums arrive, whether you like it or not. In my opinion, knowing this, 9 players out of 10 wouldn't even bother with this upgrade.

All CP0 unlocks should be moved to CP1 or CP2 just like COH1. It is forcing 99% of player base to choose the battlegroups with CP0 advantage. You never ever see anyone picking any other battlegroup that does not come with CP0 unlocks...

My biggest problem with this game is the CP0s.

Latest Update 5/19/23

GENERAL
- Increased max camera distance by 33%

US Forces
- Swapped Paratrooper M1 Carbines to M1 Garands to bring performance more in line as mainline infantry
- Increased 75mm HT range to 50 from 45 to improve combat performance compared with its fragility

British Forces
- Decreased cost of all Training Center upgrades by 5 fuel given the greatly decreased effectiveness
- Increased armor of M3 Grant to 195 from 170 to improve survivability of unit and attractiveness of unlock

DAK
- Added combined arms ability to Bersaglieri to improve combined arms tactics
- Kradschützen required tuning to increase mid-late game utility
Included as unit that provides combined arms
Increased cost to to 240 from 200 as a result of new utility

This looks really good! There is only a few things that I would do differently.

Increasing the cost of the Bazooka squads while giving a slight increase to the bazooka damage won't really help them. I think they need camo so that they have some chance of getting a satchel off. Also, 75 damage won't really help much. Bazooka's were buffed to 100 in COH2, and that was against tanks that had 640 health typically. The small increase likely won't decrease the number of shots to kill or TTK.

The Hellcat should have the same range as the Marder. They don't have any armor and not a lot of hit points. Currently with the range of the 88's, it's difficult for them to get more than one shot off before they have to retreat, which makes them nearly pointless on a map like Winter Line.

The reinforce cost for DAK's PGrens seems too high. I'd lower it to match Rifles since they don't seem to be any better than rifles. When I play DAK and use them, I always seem to be manpower starved.

US doesn't have any light or heavy arty. Would you consider giving the Scott the range it should have? The real-life Scott had a barrage range of around 8km. In comparison, mortars typically were 2-4km, the leIG was around 4km, and 105 howitzers were around 11km. In that background, it seems like the Scott barrage should be 120 to 160. In gaming terms, it seems like mobile light arty should have a shorter range than less mobile light arty so 120 seems better.

I made my own mod that is in the Workshop. It is much less ambitious than this one. Mine was done with the idea that Relic isn't likely to be ambitious either, so what would be the fewest changes we could make that would balance the game. I'm trying to balance it with only buffs so it's always going to have some problems like "Zeroing" arty guaranteeing wipes.

Do you mind if I copy your Grenadier changes into my mod? I wasn't sure what to do with them in my mod.

This looks really good! There is only a few things that I would do differently.

Increasing the cost of the Bazooka squads while giving a slight increase to the bazooka damage won't really help them. I think they need camo so that they have some chance of getting a satchel off. Also, 75 damage won't really help much. Bazooka's were buffed to 100 in COH2, and that was against tanks that had 640 health typically. The small increase likely won't decrease the number of shots to kill or TTK.

The Hellcat should have the same range as the Marder. They don't have any armor and not a lot of hit points. Currently with the range of the 88's, it's difficult for them to get more than one shot off before they have to retreat, which makes them nearly pointless on a map like Winter Line.

The reinforce cost for DAK's PGrens seems too high. I'd lower it to match Rifles since they don't seem to be any better than rifles. When I play DAK and use them, I always seem to be manpower starved.

US doesn't have any light or heavy arty. Would you consider giving the Scott the range it should have? The real-life Scott had a barrage range of around 8km. In comparison, mortars typically were 2-4km, the leIG was around 4km, and 105 howitzers were around 11km. In that background, it seems like the Scott barrage should be 120 to 160. In gaming terms, it seems like mobile light arty should have a shorter range than less mobile light arty so 120 seems better.

I made my own mod that is in the Workshop. It is much less ambitious than this one. Mine was done with the idea that Relic isn't likely to be ambitious either, so what would be the fewest changes we could make that would balance the game. I'm trying to balance it with only buffs so it's always going to have some problems like "Zeroing" arty guaranteeing wipes.

Do you mind if I copy your Grenadier changes into my mod? I wasn't sure what to do with them in my mod.

Hey Grumpy,

Nice suggestions here.

You can give them to SpecsRanger, the mod's author. He is very open to suggestions and help. Maybe you can help them with the mod.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/comments/2958174636

Hey Grumpy,

Nice suggestions here.

You can give them to SpecsRanger, the mod's author. He is very open to suggestions and help. Maybe you can help them with the mod.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/comments/2958174636

Thanks! I'll ask him if he wants any help. I know how to do all of the basics in the Essence editor but don't know how to do everything that SpecsRanger did.

Complete full changelog here:

https://github.com/Specsranger/reBALANCE-Tuning-Pack/tree/main#rebalance-tuning-pack



## Highlights
- Increased max Camera distance by 33%

- Reverted most changes that have been affected by 1.1.14 Balance Patch

- Limited ability for either factions to paradrop starting units at the start of the match

- Reinforcements require additional tuning
- Recrew team weapons ability should only be used out of combat and out of range of enemies to prevent fast recrewing of 17 pounders, Flak 36s, and emplacements
- Wehrmacht Medical Bunkers can now auto reinforce
- Grenadier’s merge ability should not be applicable to retreating units

- Reduced AA range by 55% to an average range of 120 from 720+. AA units should not be able to shoot down planes from anywhere on maps

- Reduced all flamethrower range to 15 from 20

- Emplacements, towable heavy artillery, and offmaps should no longer attack HQs
- Includes BL5.5 Artillery Emplacement, Cannone Da 105/28 Howitzer, Infantry Section’s Forward Observer Artillery Barrage, and Dingo’s Forward Observer Artillery Barrage

- Changed requirements for USF support companies to lock T4 rather than T2/3 to open more viable strategies.
- Increased fuel price of T3 to 55 from 45

- Reduced hitpoints of 17pdr and Flak 36 to 350 from 600 to keep in line with standard heavy team weapons hitpoints

- Marders overperform for its cost compared to Other TD
- Increased manpower cost to 320 from 280 and fuel cost to 45 from 25

- Bazookas and GrB 39s no longer require initial weapon reload When deployed

- Updated SBPS and EBPS names of MG34 and MG42 to keep consistent with existing set naming conventions

- Fixed detect mines toggle missing on sappers (was overlapped by breach)

- Added missing towing to DAK medical truck

- Added handbrakes to Halftracks and Trucks

- Smoke has should be added to units that were missing its upgrades
- Fixed USF vehicle smoke launchers that canceled after additional player actions and is now brought in line with DAK vehicle smoke launchers
- Added Smoke Launchers have to the Whizbang as it’s classified as a Sherman
- Fixed missing smoke ability for DAK’s Mortar Halftrack

- Standardize ultra light vehicle camo detection range
- Increased Dingo’s range to 4 from 1
- Decreased Kettenkard’s range to 4 from 15
- Decreased 221’s range to 4 from 15

- Increased Scout and Pioneer squad sizes to 4 from 3 to increase survivability, offensive power increase is minimal

- Decreased target size of Snipers back to 1.33 from 1.5

- Removed deflection damage to Boys and Panzerbusche39, but increased ROF, and increased max penetration by 10% to compensate for decreased DPS due to change

- Fixed typos and missing effectiveness infos

## Faction Changes
### US Forces
- Scouts
- Added sprint to Scouts to improve unit effectiveness and late game utility

- Bazooka squads are underperforming with their low health and firepower
- Increased damage to 75 from 60
- Increased health to 110 from 90
- Increased cost to 320 from 250

- Paratroopers
- Reverted munitions cost to 90 from 75 with new damage output
- Swapped M1 Carbines to M1 Garands to bring performance more in line as mainline infantry

- Heavy Machine Gun Paradrop needs tuning relative to their timing
- Can only be dropped within LOS

- SSF Commandos can be improved in performance
- Added camouflage ability to keep in line with other Special Operations units
- Increased SSF Commandos health to 110 to keep in line with elite infantry health

- Captain
- Improved QoL for “Rally to Me!” ability to set on squad position rather than requiring a target
- Reduced cooldown to 60 from 120

- Increased 75mm HT range to 50 from 45 to improve combat performance compared with its fragility

- M8 Scott role changed to a mobile ranged howitzer unit to expand indirect options for USF
- Increased base range to 75 from 60, just out of reach of AT guns
- Increased “Barrage” range to 75 from 60
- Increased “White Phosphorus” range to 75 from 60
- Decreased scatter to 0.05 to be in line with other light howitzers
- Increased reload time to 5 from 4

- Chaffee
- Increased AOE area radius from 1.5-4 for better anti-infantry.

- 1/4-Ton 4x4 Truck is missing a key upgrade
- Added command truck ability to allow mid/late game utility

- Sherman Whizbang are greatly underperforming
- Increased range to 75, just out of reach of AT guns
- Changed cost to match Bulldozer at 420 manpower and 90 fuel
- Added 0.15 deflection damage for armored area denial
- Increased penetration to 300
- Improved precision barrage scatter as it is worse than regular barragem

- Sherman Bulldozer is underperforming
- Base range to 40 from 35 to kite AT Infantry more effectively

### British Forces
- Decreased cost of all Training Center upgrades by 5 fuel given the greatly decreased effectiveness

- Engineer SMG profile is overturned
- Increased cooldown duration to 2.5 from 1.375

- Infantry Section requires tuning
- Gated Boys and Bren upgrades behind T2
- Decreased cost of Bren LMG to 75 from 100

- LMG Commandos are missing a key ability for Special Operations units
- Added camouflage ability to keep in line with other Special Operations units

- Increased Centaur base range to 40 from 35 to kite AT Infantry more effectively

- Increased armor of M3 Grant to 195 from 170 to improve survivability of unit and attractiveness of unlock

### DAK
- Timing of Armored Reserves does not align with current match cadence
- Adjusted manpower cost to 220 from 200 and fuel cost to 100 from 150

- Kradschützen requires tuning to increase mid-late game utility
- Included as a unit that provides combined arms
- Increased cost to 240 from 200 as a result of new utility

- Panzergrenadier is underperforming relative to their cost
- Weapon profile updated for more optimal long-range combat similar to kar98k_jaeger_ak profile

- Panzerjaeger is undertuned after losing a squad member and is locked behind a call-in
- Now buildable in T3 and gated by Support Armored Elements upgrade
- Increased health to 100 from 85 to better align with Other AT infantry

- Bersaglieri are overperforming early game with their permanent sprint passive ability
- Decreased cost to 300 from 320
- Removed “Quick March” ability
- Swapped “Urra” with “Sprint” ability as it is not meant to be a CQC unit
- Added fast capture to Bersaglieri to replace Vet 1 ability
- Added combined arms ability to Bersaglieri to improve combined Arms tactics

- 8 Rad is overtuned relative to their timing and unit type
- Reduced base health to 360 from 420, same as Greyhound

- Semovente is underperforming in their TD roles
- Armor increased from 100/55/40 to 60/45/30

- Walking Stuka Rocket Artillery should be tuned against vehicles as well
- Added 0.15 deflection damage for armored vehicle area denial
- Increased penetration to 300

- Flak 36 currently overperforms compared to Allied counterparts due to AA and AT role, alongside full 360 auto-targeting
- Increased reload to 4.25 seconds from 2.125
- Increased Manpower cost to 380

- Infantry Battlegroup’s HMG bunker was overperforming for cost
- Increased munition cost to 60 from 0
- Increased build time to 45 from 15 to keep in line with standard bunker build time


### Wehrmacht
- Grenadier is undertuned relative to their role and cost with little late game viability
- Reduced upgrade Grenadier to elite cost to 50MP
- Added LMG42 upgrade to open late game options
- Swapped “Sprint” with Bersaglieri’s “Urra!” ability

- Jaeger is overperforming against other infantry with the Panzerschreck upgrade
- Give 2 weaker Panzerschreck (160 split between the two) to reduce the squad’s anti-infantry damage while maintaining their potency Against vehicles

- Fallschirmpioneer Squad is overtuned relative to their timing
- Can only be dropped within LOS

- 221 Scout Car is underperforming for its cost and should serve as a stopgap between AI/AT vehicles
- Scaled model to approx. size of Humbar given the similar role for on-screen fluency.
- MG34 damage increased to 4 from 3
- Enabled MG34 as an AA weapon to match Dingo’s performance
- Decreased damage to 100 to serve the new AI/AT role
- Increased AOE

- Mechanized Zeroing Artillery Barrage is overperforming for its cost and leaves little reaction time for players
- Decreased damage to 50 from 200, which guaranteed army wipes

- Decreased reload time of Stummel from 5 to 4 to improve upgrade desirability

- Increased Stoßtruppen’s STGs ready aim time from 0.5 to 0.25 to improve upgrade desirability

- Revert fuel costs of Panzer IV to 90 from 100 to match medium tank price to performance ratio

- Increased Brummbar base range to 40 from 30 to kite AT Infantry more effectively

## KNOWN ISSUES
- 221 Scout Car gunner and Hellcat crew are scaled incorrectly after unit scale change

- Attack ground radius for flamers are incorrect

Complete full changelog here:


- Fallschirmpioneer Squad is overtuned relative to their timing
- Can only be dropped within LOS


- Mechanized Zeroing Artillery Barrage is overperforming for its cost and leaves little reaction time for players

For all parachute squads, wouldn't it be better and more realistic to just greatly decrease the precision where it drops?
The problems with parachute squads are:
-The drops are super accurate so you can drop them in the fog of war with no risk, generally right behind something like a MG.
-Units can't fire at them until they finish dropping and can shoot. They shouldn't be invulnerable while parachuting.

Changing that would eliminate most of the BS.

The zeroing arty change is good. It currently guarantees wipes of any team weapon without a retreat button.

reBALANCE Tuning Pack got an update, with the lastest relic changes in mind:


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2958174636&searchtext=



## Highlights
- Updated tuning pack changes to latest Emerald Bear 1.2.5 hotfix
- Aircraft and AA revamp
Replaced all Attack Loiters with Strafes with reduced 3CP requirement
Re-standardized max AA distance to 200 from 270
Increased all AA unit damage to attack planes, can now down planes in the middle of releasing their salvo
Recon plane health increased from 480 to 1280 to balance to new AA damage
High-Altitude bomber plane health increased from 480 to 720 to new AA damage
- All medium and heavy vehicle callins have been replaced with T4 unlocks similar to COH2. CP requirements reduced by 1
- Limited ability for either factions to paradrop starting units at the start of the match
- Wehrmacht Medical Bunkers can now auto reinforce
- Grenadier’s merge ability should not be applicable to retreating units
- Added “Breach” ability to all grenade throwing units which include Gurkhas, Footguards, Commandos, Grenadiers, Stosstruppen and Paratroopers
- Emplacements, towable heavy artillery, and offmaps should no longer attack HQs
Includes BL5.5 Artillery Emplacement, Cannone Da 105/28 Howitzer, Infantry Section’s Forward Observer Artillery Barrage, and Dingo’s Forward Observer Artillery Barrage
- Changed requirements for USF support companies to lock T4 rather than T2/3 to open more viable strategies.
Increased fuel price of T3 to 55 from 45
- Reduced hitpoints of 17pdr and Flak 36 to 350 from 600 to keep in line with standard heavy team weapons hitpoints
- Bazookas and GrB 39s no longer require initial weapon reload when deployed
- Updated SBPS and EBPS names of MG34 and MG42 to keep consistent with existing set naming conventions
- Fixed detect mines toggle missing on sappers (was overlapped by breach)
- Added missing towing to DAK medical truck
- Added handbrakes to Halftracks and Trucks
- Smoke added to units that were missing its upgrades
Fixed USF vehicle smoke launchers that canceled after additional player actions and is now brought in line with DAK vehicle smoke launchers
Added Smoke Launchers have to the Whizbang as it’s classified as a Sherman
Added missing smoke ability to Carro Armato M13/40 Light Tank and Tiger
- Standardize ultra light vehicle camo detection range
Increased Dingo’s range to 4 from 1
Decreased Kettenkard’s range to 4 from 15
Decreased 221’s range to 4 from 15
- Increased Scout and Pioneer squad sizes to 4 from 3 to increase survivability, offensive power increase is minimal
- Decreased target size of Snipers back to 1.33 from 1.5
- Removed deflection damage to Boys and Panzerbusche39, but increased ROF, and increased max penetration by 10% to compensate for decreased DPS due to change
- Added Recon Sight ability for Pathfinders and Scouts at Vet 1 which gives them 10 extra LOS when stationary
- Fixed typos and missing effectiveness infos

## Known Issues
- 221 Scout Car gunner and Hellcat crew are scaled incorrectly after unit scale change
- ASC’s “Improved Munitions” incorrectly calls in double P47’s for rocket strafe and a JU-87 for Bombing Run
- Incorrect VO playing with new Strafe update



complete changelog here:


https://github.com/Specsranger/reBALANCE-Tuning-Pack/

I messaged 45 users in my friends list if they would be willing to give CoH 3 another shot with this tuning pack and maybe some custom maps. Every single one is not interested. That's the level of apathy this game has accumulated for itself.

It honestly beggars belief