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Balance thoughts?

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24 Feb 2023, 04:44 AM
#1
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

Alright gents. Let me hear the opinions.

I personally play both allies and axis, and I think my best faction is US. Also, I think that US is currently the best faction.

It seems to me like allied infantry does have the upper hand, specifically brits and their serious blob potential with brens and/or at rifles both being effective against infantry.

US needs doctrines to long range blob, so less of a problem for them however.

I struggle quite a bit as Axis honestly, but I don't call OP until I'm certain I've properly countered my enemy properly. Allied infantry blobs do get countered very well by axis machineguns, but that's only on defense.

I feel like stock OST has some big issues dealing with infantry blobs when attacking. Even two nebelwerfers seems lackluster sometimes. When ost has fuel control they can go for brumm, but with no fuel control I feel like it's all they can do to just tread water.

US on the other hand,I feel like an absolute god. They're just so versatile and their tanks are pretty good.

It seems like the playerbase consensus is Axis OP (longer wait times), but when I play US I just don't feel that way. What dk you guys think?
24 Feb 2023, 08:18 AM
#2
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

cannot really tell yet, as im learning one faction first, which is wehrmacht

but conscript-style 6-man grens feel weird and weaker than they should be
24 Feb 2023, 08:26 AM
#3
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Everyone except illuminati is learning factions, build orders, units capabilities.

No one with a sliver of sanity wants to seriously talk about balance now.

The only clear thing so far is there is no obvious IWIN unit like HMG42 or FHT at CoH2 release.
24 Feb 2023, 09:56 AM
#4
avatar of Kothre

Posts: 431

I don't want to formulate too strong an opinion after one day, but I feel like balance is pretty good for day 1. Balancing 4 factions couldn't have been easy.

I personally really struggled with Americans against turtling Wehrmacht players in 4v4s. The US is seriously lacking in indirect fire, unlike the British, which makes no sense given real life US doctrine. All your artillery options to deal with turtling are locked behind doctrines (and even those aren't particularly good) or the air support building. Mortars do surprisingly shite damage against bunkers, and the AT halftrack sucks. Probably an l2p issue on my part, but I couldn't shake the feeling that there was very little I could do against a big line of defenses.

DAK feels quite strong if played well.
24 Feb 2023, 10:33 AM
#5
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2023, 09:56 AMKothre
I don't want to formulate too strong an opinion after one day, but I feel like balance is pretty good for day 1. Balancing 4 factions couldn't have been easy.

I personally really struggled with Americans against turtling Wehrmacht players in 4v4s. The US is seriously lacking in indirect fire, unlike the British. All your options to deal with it are locked behind doctrines (and even those aren't particularly good) or the air support building. Mortars do surprisingly shite damage against bunkers, and the AT halftrack sucks. Probably an l2p issue on my part, but I couldn't shake the feeling that there was very little I could do against a big line of defenses.

DAK feels quite strong if played well.


It seems like OST bunkers actually bounce mortar shots and they only do deflect damage. Same for howitzers, funnily enough, it seems like they wanted artillery pieces to only hard counter infantry and teamweapons (seems like the arty shots track infantry a little (mortars don't tho)), and bunkers as a last resort "I have nothing else to shoot" target.

AT guns are the only serious/efficient counter to bunkers from what I've seen, which is not very intuitive.
24 Feb 2023, 11:33 AM
#6
avatar of Immoraliste

Posts: 50

Some of the offmaps are ridiculous: arriving very quickly, and huge,almost random area of effect (squads being wiped half a screen away from the marked target radius, despite being moved the second the offmap was called). Basically no counter-play at all, which I'm sure the competitive scene will rage about. I'm sure these will be toned down.

Haven't tested yet in launch package, but assuming no change in the last month, the Axis bunker has 360 degree firing coverage with an mg crew inside (i.e. zero flanking in early game if a player puts a bunker on a key point with an mg). With mortars being ineffective on bunkers, it leaves the only counter as waiting for AT gun (but the bunker with mg crew can be built in minute 1), or smoke + some kind of demo.

Agree with you re USF. Seem a very versatile army.
24 Feb 2023, 12:38 PM
#7
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096

The offmap abilities are genuinely insane at the moment.
24 Feb 2023, 12:59 PM
#8
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366


Haven't tested yet in launch package, but assuming no change in the last month, the Axis bunker has 360 degree firing coverage with an mg crew inside (i.e. zero flanking in early game if a player puts a bunker on a key point with an mg).


Oh that is devilishly dastardly. Now I know what I'm doing with my pios after my signal layer kettenkrad connects my resources to the VP lmfao.
24 Feb 2023, 13:02 PM
#9
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

I did, however, notice that DAK has an interesting advantage early on because it can skip capping and go to key points/build sandbags while their motorcyle backcaps.
24 Feb 2023, 13:06 PM
#10
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

cannot really tell yet, as im learning one faction first, which is wehrmacht

but conscript-style 6-man grens feel weird and weaker than they should be


Their strength definitely comes from their utility like coh2 conscripts. But hey! At least you can roleplay soviets and merge into flamer pios for a reasonable power spike.
24 Feb 2023, 13:19 PM
#11
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 309 | Subs: 1

Wtf are these skill planes? How tf did Lelic take one of the things player DESPISED the most and made them even more op???
24 Feb 2023, 13:44 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I did, however, notice that DAK has an interesting advantage early on because it can skip capping and go to key points/build sandbags while their motorcyle backcaps.

That is more of Wehr advantage as ketten post upgrade gives raw +3 on points.
I used to open with bike, but its not worth it most of the time unless you're one of the god micro players.
PG into 250 into PG is much more versatile and aggressive opening then what you've described, it might be just my imagination, but it is very noticable that DAK infantry really does perform a lot better with vehicle around.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2023, 13:19 PMGarrett
Wtf are these skill planes? How tf did Lelic take one of the things player DESPISED the most and made them even more op???

Having use them and having them used against me, I'll just say this:
Don't fucking blob like it was coh2.
24 Feb 2023, 18:23 PM
#13
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

Just look for win ratio on leaderboards, It's ridiculous how much better axis wr is than the usf one.
24 Feb 2023, 18:44 PM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Just look for win ratio on leaderboards, It's ridiculous how much better axis wr is than the usf one.

What leaderboards?
There is no ranked play.
24 Feb 2023, 19:08 PM
#15
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2023, 18:44 PMKatitof

What leaderboards?
There is no ranked play.


https://leaderboards.companyofheroes.com/
24 Feb 2023, 19:26 PM
#16
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



https://leaderboards.companyofheroes.com/

Oh nice, couple more games to get to it then.
24 Feb 2023, 20:15 PM
#17
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

Just look for win ratio on leaderboards, It's ridiculous how much better axis wr is than the usf one.


I guess that's all top rank stuff, because here US is awesome.
24 Feb 2023, 22:54 PM
#18
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

USF Reinforce Loiter is absolutely busted. 80 Muni for free auto reinforce to any USF units in a target area for 40 seconds. Actually quite amusing to see 40 Soap Clones from COD parachuting into your enemies cutoff
25 Feb 2023, 00:51 AM
#19
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3029 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Feb 2023, 09:56 AMKothre
I don't want to formulate too strong an opinion after one day, but I feel like balance is pretty good for day 1. Balancing 4 factions couldn't have been easy.

I personally really struggled with Americans against turtling Wehrmacht players in 4v4s. The US is seriously lacking in indirect fire, unlike the British, which makes no sense given real life US doctrine. All your artillery options to deal with turtling are locked behind doctrines (and even those aren't particularly good) or the air support building. Mortars do surprisingly shite damage against bunkers, and the AT halftrack sucks. Probably an l2p issue on my part, but I couldn't shake the feeling that there was very little I could do against a big line of defenses.

DAK feels quite strong if played well.


Having played all factions a decent amount, I can say that USF is the only one that feels like fighting a constant uphill battle with a massive handicap in 2v2-4v4.

Indirect fire is obnoxiously bad as you said, and brits seem to be superior in every single regard except mech center upgraded Hellcats and esp. Shermans, those are absolutely nuts
25 Feb 2023, 03:29 AM
#20
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366



Having played all factions a decent amount, I can say that USF is the only one that feels like fighting a constant uphill battle with a massive handicap in 2v2-4v4.

Indirect fire is obnoxiously bad as you said, and brits seem to be superior in every single regard except mech center upgraded Hellcats and esp. Shermans, those are absolutely nuts


US mortar bunker has actually pretty good range and is non-doc.

What do you mean fighting an uphill battle? I really don't agree. Maybe depending on your support center upgrade. 76mm shermans rape everything. US has multiple options for elite infantry thru battlegroups, and their veterancy upgrades are versatile.
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