The mortar is simply not a "piece of garbage" not matter how many times you repeat that claim.
Then I'll help him repeat it.
The USF mortar is a piece of cylindrical dog shit.
Respectfully.
Stats for usf mortar
1 Jan 2023, 10:22 AM
#21
Posts: 1096
Then I'll help him repeat it.
The USF mortar is a piece of cylindrical dog shit.
Respectfully.
1 Jan 2023, 19:54 PM
#22
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
The reduced AOE makes is a RNG joke
2 Jan 2023, 08:36 AM
#23
Posts: 1379
Then I'll help him repeat it.
The USF mortar is a piece of cylindrical dog shit.
Respectfully.
Realistically speaking, most dog shit *is* cylindrical, so that's a bit redundant.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
2 Jan 2023, 10:35 AM
#24
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The reduced AOE makes is a RNG joke
No it doesn't
It is in line when clumped formation and even superior to PM-41 when in wide formation.
3 Jan 2023, 02:31 AM
#25
Posts: 682
Realistically speaking, most dog shit *is* cylindrical, so that's a bit redundant.
Ah, now that's deserving of the 'expert excrement exhibitor' title
/s
3 Jan 2023, 03:01 AM
#26
Posts: 1794
USF mortar is very good against wehrboo, more so than wehr mortar against allies imo.
USF is a forward reaching faction, meaning their mortar will get more sight often. They can also forward reinforce. And mainly the smaller squad sizes of wehr units mean it is more devastating....
try mortar vs weapon teams, and allies mortars usually better to dig in and auto barrage.
USF is a forward reaching faction, meaning their mortar will get more sight often. They can also forward reinforce. And mainly the smaller squad sizes of wehr units mean it is more devastating....
try mortar vs weapon teams, and allies mortars usually better to dig in and auto barrage.
3 Jan 2023, 15:15 PM
#27
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
No it doesn't
It is in line when clumped formation and even superior to PM-41 when in wide formation.
Don't know where you took your data from, certainly not from the game.
3 Jan 2023, 17:43 PM
#28
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Don't know where you took your data from, certainly not from the game.
At least I presented data, have you presented anything other than your opinion?
3 Jan 2023, 20:19 PM
#29
Posts: 1289
Opinions can be based in facts. Just like charts/sheets can be filled with wrong data.
If the usf mortar is truly very close to gw pm41 or so close you almost cant messure a differnce it would see more action esp vs osther. But it doesnt see much if any action. So either it isent nearly as good or usf has no room for it to operate, because it struggles to much in other eares.
I for one think now that removing smoke from rifles and then having the mortar or rear echelons/officers provide smoke was the wrong solution esp since rifles didnt get a significant buff elsewhere imo. The micro and units/recources required to smoke an mg for example is to high for the reward right now.
If the usf mortar is truly very close to gw pm41 or so close you almost cant messure a differnce it would see more action esp vs osther. But it doesnt see much if any action. So either it isent nearly as good or usf has no room for it to operate, because it struggles to much in other eares.
I for one think now that removing smoke from rifles and then having the mortar or rear echelons/officers provide smoke was the wrong solution esp since rifles didnt get a significant buff elsewhere imo. The micro and units/recources required to smoke an mg for example is to high for the reward right now.
4 Jan 2023, 01:51 AM
#30
Posts: 682
Don't know where you took your data from, certainly not from the game.
He took it from a post that's linked in the thread.
/s
4 Jan 2023, 09:40 AM
#31
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Opinions can be based in facts. Just like charts/sheets can be filled with wrong data.
That is a nice generalization but it does not really say much in this case. Are you actually saying that these particular chart are wrong? If so what where are they wrong?
If the usf mortar is truly very close to gw pm41 or so close you almost cant messure a differnce it would see more action esp vs osther. But it doesnt see much if any action. So either it isent nearly as good or usf has no room for it to operate, because it struggles to much in other eares.
Do you actually have any data to support you claim that M1 does not see much action?
Even more importantly do you how its usage compares to other mortars?
I for one think now that removing smoke from rifles and then having the mortar or rear echelons/officers provide smoke was the wrong solution esp since rifles didnt get a significant buff elsewhere imo. The micro and units/recources required to smoke an mg for example is to high for the reward right now.
Removing smoke riflemen was the correct decision and the game at the time was at bad state where smoke grenades was where being used constantly and there was little counter to them.
Mainline infatry should not have smoke grenades in the first place.
4 Jan 2023, 18:53 PM
#32
Posts: 1289
That is a nice generalization but it does not really say much in this case. Are you actually saying that these particular chart are wrong? If so what where are they wrong?
it happend before that outdated or mis interpeted stats where used. And i am not saying wrong just seeing how the usf mortar is percieved preforming it is suprising to see the charts
Do you actually have any data to support you claim that M1 does not see much action?
Even more importantly do you how its usage compares to other mortars?
i dont need a sheet with data to state something obvious. from what i see in 1s esp mortars have fallen out of favor a bit. The usf mortar i rarely see in 1s or any mode and streams. This probably has to do with its preformance but mostly other reasons such as better options timing/being down a rifle squad
Removing smoke riflemen was the correct decision and the game at the time was at bad state where smoke grenades was where being used constantly and there was little counter to them.
Mainline infatry should not have smoke grenades in the first place.
I agree that mainlines should not have smoke but if that faction is incomplete or have a weird tech path i can understand the need. Wich usf is currently imo. They removed/redesigned a key design feuture without much thought and called it a day.
Do you think current rifles are balanced cost to preformance/micro and can they be an actual mainline? Imo no they are not, high cost and high micro for okay isch results. Hence paths etc etc.
I dont want an answer to this, just saying.
There are also others things that shoudnt be, such as the latest implementation off arty off maps on tank commanders with no noticable downside to the tanks preformance, outright destroying arty pieces 100% of the time with lill risk. One having shared cooldowns on nades cuz its to strong while the other doesnt.
4 Jan 2023, 21:01 PM
#33
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
it happend before that outdated or mis interpeted stats where used. And i am not saying wrong just seeing how the usf mortar is percieved preforming it is suprising to see the charts
Do you have any reason to believe this data is wrong other that the do not agree with your opinion? Because I can't find anything wrong with them.
i dont need a sheet with data to state something obvious. from what i see in 1s esp mortars have fallen out of favor a bit. The usf mortar i rarely see in 1s or any mode and streams. This probably has to do with its preformance but mostly other reasons such as better options timing/being down a rifle squad
And I actually see the USF mortar and UKF one if available in many in large modes.
Tell you what for your next 10 4vs4 game count how many time a USF player build one and share your stats.
5 Jan 2023, 09:38 AM
#34
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
He took it from a post that's linked in the thread.
As I said, not from the game. The picture represented by the data is certainly correct if the data is up to date but does not reflect the ingame behavior of the unit.
It doesn't matter if on the long run the unit behave well on par with other indirect fire units of its kind, with USF you need it to comply rapidly to what it is supposed to do because you're always in motion, you can't wait at long range for it to finally force a HMG to relocate so you can start moving.
Mortars work well with Ostheer or if you go Path or have access to M1919 through doctrines and play more static. But its a complete waste with riflemen. As opposed the OKW Leig has much more impact because his barrage is way more accurate allowing it to synergize with assaulting a position, even if it fires less shells, you can move and at the same time barrage with it knowing the targeted unit will have to reposition. Just check how many time you see 1 USF mortar and how many time you see 2xLeig in 2vs2 if you don't beleive it. Leig are just formidable, maybe on the OP side when doubled, and USF Mortar terrible.
So yes, USF mortar stats are dogshit because USF isn't Ostheer or Soviet and you can't just come and say it is correct because it works well with those other factions that play completely differently.
If anything should be done with the USF mortar it would be to make it more like the Leig, firing no more than 3 shells on its barrage but deadly accurate. Not enough damage to kill a full health squad but forcing the playing to react and move it fast so you can use it in conjecture with your riflemen.
5 Jan 2023, 10:18 AM
#35
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
As I said, not from the game. The picture represented by the data is certainly correct if the data is up to date but does not reflect the ingame behavior of the unit.
It doesn't matter if on the long run the unit behave well on par with other indirect fire units of its kind, with USF you need it to comply rapidly to what it is supposed to do because you're always in motion, you can't wait at long range for it to finally force a HMG to relocate so you can start moving.
Yes it does. It blow out of the water the argument that the M1 mortar is trash.
If you want to play dynamically don't build a mortar or if build one use to smoke HMGs and not damage them. Claiming that M1 is trash because it does not work in in a dynamic play style is silly since the majority of these types of weapons do not.
Mortars work well with Ostheer or if you go Path or have access to M1919 through doctrines and play more static.
Not if your opponent choose to play dynamically as you have already claimed.
Glad to see that you acknowledge that mortar can work if one decides to use as intended and play statistically.
But its a complete waste with riflemen. As opposed the OKW Leig has much more impact because his barrage is way more accurate allowing it to synergize with assaulting a position, even if it fires less shells, you can move and at the same time barrage with it knowing the targeted unit will have to reposition. Just check how many time you see 1 USF mortar and how many time you see 2xLeig in 2vs2 if you don't beleive it. Leig are just formidable, maybe on the OP side when doubled, and USF Mortar terrible.
Leigs become available later, have a tech cost, are more expensive and guess what they have worse AOE profile.
The use of Leig is rather irrelevant to M1 performance and it should be compared with pack howitzer and not the mortar.
So yes, USF mortar stats are dogshit because USF isn't Ostheer or Soviet and you can't just come and say it is correct because it works well with those other factions that play completely differently.
If the stat are inline with other similar weapons they are simply NOT "dogshit". Just because the M1 does not fit your own play style that does not make its stats "dogshit".
Making the M1 any better would mean that USF would win a static game leaving Ostheer with little room to counter them.
If anything should be done with the USF mortar it would be to make it more like the Leig, firing no more than 3 shells on its barrage but deadly accurate. Not enough damage to kill a full health squad but forcing the playing to react and move it fast so you can use it in conjecture with your riflemen.
In other words you want the M1 be able to completely counter HMG-42 so that USF can completely dominate Ostheer from the first engagement. What you are suggesting will simply brake the balance.
5 Jan 2023, 10:50 AM
#36
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
bunch of non sense
If we swap Lmg42 upgrade with 1 Bar on Gren, would you consider it good stat for the unit and make Ostheer a playable faction? Or Gren with Pio SMG, after all they are all good.
USF Mortar stats are trash because they aren't suited for the faction, even if those stats are good for other mortars belonging to other factions.
5 Jan 2023, 11:19 AM
#37
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
If we swap Lmg42 upgrade with 1 Bar on Gren, would you consider it good stat for the unit and make Ostheer a playable faction? Or Gren with Pio SMG, after all they are all good.
BAR stat's remain the same regardless if is it being used by grenadiers or riflemen.
Synergy is not really related to stats.
HE Mortar fire is not suited for dynamic play but that has nothing to do with the stats of the mortar.
USF Mortar stats are trash because they aren't suited for the faction, even if those stats are good for other mortars belonging to other factions.
USF mortar stat are inline with other mortar, unless you want to claim that all mortar have trash stats they are is simply not trash.
I am not sure what you are complaining about here, player where begging for mortar for USF ("because they need a no fuel counter to garrison" among other things) and once it become available you are again complaining.
In sort, it is your claim that M1 stat are trash that makes no sense.
5 Jan 2023, 11:41 AM
#38
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
who would win? the entire fucking coh2 playerbase or vipper displaying charts on the DPS of the mortar with the worst accuracy and range in the game
the coh2.org forum experience:
5 Jan 2023, 12:52 PM
#39
Posts: 1515
who would win? the entire fucking coh2 playerbase or vipper displaying charts on the DPS of the mortar with the worst accuracy and range in the game
Truth be told, he is entitled to his own opinion. No matter what it is. False or not.
I find it funny how he's playing you for fools, always dragging you into pointless encircled arguments with silly logic, and pretty much all of you always take the bait. It's fantastic really. I'm not even mad at Vipper. It's quite an achievement, to make other people hate-reply to you constantly. Kudos.
Sometimes you just live rent free in other people's heads.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
5 Jan 2023, 13:02 PM
#40
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Truth be told, he is entitled to his own opinion. No matter what it is. False or not.
I find it funny how he's playing you for fools, always dragging you into pointless encircled arguments with silly logic, and pretty much all of you always take the bait. It's fantastic really. I'm not even mad at Vipper. It's quite an achievement, to make other people hate-reply to you constantly. Kudos.
Sometimes you just live rent free in other people's heads.
You're giving him too much importance yourself. I use him to make my point when I see the opportunity, then I ghost him.
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