Commander Overlap a serious problem

Did some rearranging of the FUBAR Soviet commanders. No ability appears more than twice, every commander has at least one exclusive ability, and I don' think any two doctrines have two abilities in common. German rework coming in a day or so. Some of the names should change imo because they are bland and confusing.

+1

Definitely agree with this! +1
Basilone has a good point (referring to his first post) as well.

+1 Totally agree,
The only problem is that they fucked it up and some of the people bought the commanders and IMO there is no way this guys would return the money to the people who bought the commanders.
I really hope I'm wrong and that Relic will make some good decisions in this matter!

Wow that your two path commander looks amazing

Big. Fat. +1.

Not only is this a simple and elegant way to improve on commanders, it also has a nostalgic hint at the old doctrines from vCOH.

Stephenn's point about Soviet having to pick early for their doctrinal elite infantry is also a good one for this.

Great suggestion! Supported. However quite a big step from the "auto-unlock" system currently implemented. Something that to me suggests to me that this is not coming anytime soon. :/

+1. Considering that you're going to end up with way more than 6 CPs (where most commanders max out) in a long-ish game, I don't see any good reason why the commanders shouldn't contain more abilities and let those abilities unlock in the way WhiteFlash proposes.

Also, the images don't show the new commanders, which contain a lot of unique abilities, but that's not relevant to the point in the OP.

As someone who has bought most of the commanders (if not all; it gets hard to keep track when there are so many) I would be happy if Relic rearranged/removed/whatever'ed the commanders to fit a system like the one described in the OP even if it means some of my money ends up going down the toilet. For me, having a fun, deep game that people will be playing 5+ years from now is totally worth that.

well, i hope relic will consider it

Agreed! The current commander system is so boring.

Good in theory, but need to be careful not to inadvertently make some Commanders too good.

While it would be nice to have a choice tree like coh1, I actually think its not too bad a thing to have certain abilities available several times.

The reason there are so many overlaps is because there are lots of commanders, the whole idea IMO isn't the fact each commander has similar abilities, it's the things they have different.

For example, the 2 ISU doctrines are very similar, main difference being shocks/guards.


In my opinion, this system of lots of overlapping commanders, provides players with greater choice of which mix of abilities to use, without having a system where you can choose an exact deadly mix, which could be open to unbalance.

This system ultimately means they have to try balance each one individually, easier when you are taking about 5 abilities only. Having a near infinite mix of abilities would make balance much harder.


Finally, if they reduced the amount of overlap, I believe that would actually reduce choice for the player ( under current system), for example: I would like to play with shocks, currently I can choose from very different doctrines containing them, if there was only 2, I would be massively restricted in how I play if I wanted them.

Having abilities overlap, brings those abilities closer to being core units/abilities, and slightly further from being doctrinal, while still allowing devs to limit them when other potent abilities are chosen. Meanwhile some abilities are more rare. I think this is fully intentional.

I think they could use a system where you create your own commander, but certain abilities would prohibit other ones that would be deemed to be an OP mix. There could possibly be a max and minimum total combined CP number as well (too prevent too many early or late abilities in one commander). You would have to be able to view their selection on loading screen, but this idea would probably take away from players who react well to whichever doctrine is chosen.


I seem to be the odd one out, but I actually like the current commander system.

Relic is not interested in making a good game.
Money is everything they care for thats why the System won t Change.

A very sensible suggestion.

I believe it's high time Relic's decision makers (looking at you Greg Wilson) start paying attention to the community who is actually coming up with very valid and constructive ways to improve their product (although they are NOT getting paid to do this job).

Idea is good, but it would be better (in Relic business) to create commanders with 3 abilities as DLC and create 3 doctrines that contain 2 commanders each (fo example defensive, blitzkrieg and terror doctrines for germans)

I agree and like the idea but I don`t think it is actually doable. There were similar suggestions before so forgive me for quoting myself (yes, I am lazy).

The main issue is that such a move would mean abolishing many commanders that a lot of people bought with real money which would create a huge sh*tstorm of rage against Relic, people would call them thieves, demand their money back etc. It`s unthinkable.

I don`t think there is a way around it without refunding everyone and good luck to the guy who would suggest that to the corporate heads with the argument "But it would improve gameplay...".

Another thing is pumping out new commanders generates nice cashflow for the devs/publisher. If you couldn`t recycle anything it could lead to less new commanders and smaller cashflow as a result.

It would be nice to have lesser number of more archetypical commanders but I just don`t think Relic can go back now.

Idea is good, but it would be better (in Relic business) to create commanders with 3 abilities as DLC and create 3 doctrines that contain 2 commanders each (fo example defensive, blitzkrieg and terror doctrines for germans)

Yeah, but I think they should leave commanders for the casual players (ToW & custom matches) and introduce 3 unique doctrines á 6 abilities. This way they still could gain revenues from commanders and maybe after some time also from new (well balanced & unique!!!) doctrines for ranked & competitive matches...

+1

The choice system is very good but it would only create more overlapping abilities (I don't see that as a problem myself) because you added another ability to the tree.
Plus how would you unlock the other side of the tree? On the right side you ended with 5cps, does this mean you need to wait 4cps to unlock the howitzer? Make it when you select an ability from either side you every ability gets one cp cheaper.

I totally agree with this. Currently there are commanders out there which nobody uses anymore because they are just simply an overlap of current abilities and do not feel in anyway unique. Only the new commanders that have recently come out feel like they are worthy of this title as they each contain abilities that no other commanders contain. E.G Osttruppen Commander, Elite Troops, Urban Defense etc.