i fear Relic/Sega is wanting too much

Assuming Relic keeps their word, it would be 60€ for four factions and two campaigns, thats way more content on launch than ever before. If you think 60 bucks is too much for that then I really don't know what to tell you.

It gives me the impression of you being this type of player that never wants to spend more than 20€ on any game on this planet ever, even if it's Rockstar Games levels of quality and even if you get thousands of hours of content from it

Okay great argument, actually never thought about the angle of single player content and the fact that they actually launch with a larger roster.
Still it will take alot for me to say that 60 bucks for a game are justified, atleast what "AAA studios" actually and literally poop out in the past decade.

Trying to attack me with "expectations of a rockstar game for 20 bucks" is kind of easy and also blown way out of proportion, you are better than that.
I simply hate the status quo of esteemed studios making mediocreness standard while increasing prices. Im fine with 50 euros, but 60 euros is a stretch, which makes me most definetly wait and see how the game actually looks and plays thanks to content creators.

Assuming Relic keeps their word, it would be 60€ for four factions and two campaigns, thats way more content on launch than ever before. If you think 60 bucks is too much for that then I really don't know what to tell you.

It gives me the impression of you being this type of player that never wants to spend more than 20€ on any game on this planet ever, even if it's Rockstar Games levels of quality and even if you get thousands of hours of content from it

What I see so far this is not a level AAA game that requires 60-70 euros. If the campaign in Italy were a really high quality Campaign with cutscenes and unique missions and not a Skyrmish set, then we could safely talk about 2 campaigns, 4 factions. But so far I see no reason for such a price tag. Jeez, yes, there will not even be an Italian side in the game, although the whole meaning of the choice of Italy is in the Italian faction.

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Please, you don't know how the game developing system works, you just assume things or what you've heard and that doesn't make you right. also you keep saying you are paying 60$ to test the game for Relic, but you have already tested the game for free, many alphas probably. I think you fail to see, how important it is for us to test the game at any stage and how lucky we are to improve the game in its pre-launch state.

Wanting the game to be perfect on launch is just asking to be disappointed, nothing is perfect. Ever.

I do apologize for going at you like this, but dude, you are just assuming and wanting too much while being cheap. (I don't wanna pay for other peoples hard work) If this mentality keeps spreading,:" Don't buy the game on launch, but 6-12 months after launch because we know best", then Relic's expected sales will suffer. Cancel culture at it's best.

From my perspective, CoH3 is coming along nicely and will have a much better launch than CoH2 did. Be it delayed or not.

LMAO if everything you are advocating for cancel culture bullshit.

I never asked for a perfect title upon launch. I asked for a completed one, since you are buying a product which by EVERY legal system in the Western World is recognized as "something complete, finished and ready for disposable consumption".

Releasing a broken as fuck game (broken: eye-glaring bugs, fucked up shaders, shitty performance from a 20 year old engine who still uses one core) is not production. True I have 0 experience from game production, but I have some from software production in general. Nowhere, except for 2022 gaming world is the consumer expected to shove down his throat a shitty piece of media to "support the poor company ".

And I am anything BUT cheap. I just demand my natural rights as a citized and consumer from your so loved society. You would NEVER buy half a tshirt and take the company's word that they will sew you the other half in 6 months. Why do this for a game?

And finally, you cannot blame the consumer who makes a conscious decision to buy COH3 after 6-12 months just so that he can be careful to not play a completely broken game. You are paying for a complete experience.

You espouse the most prominent world-view in 2022 Clearnet: that of a heartful consumer who wants the best and only the best from their corporate overlord, almost to a childish extent (freudian analysis not yet ready for publication). "You are not paying people for their hard word" --exactly dude, I am not. That's Relic's responsibility. I just buy a game. If Relic is so shittily managed that they cannot even pay their employees properly that's on them and they should go bankrupt, like thousands of studios have done before them. That's not an ethical concern of mine.

Exactly how you would not give a gram of shit if some random factory in Sri Lanka downsized and 1,500 people lost their jobs.

Assuming Relic keeps their word, it would be 60€ for four factions and two campaigns, thats way more content on launch than ever before. If you think 60 bucks is too much for that then I really don't know what to tell you.

Nobody can promise me that these factions will play well with each other and will not have UKF-on-launch imbalance issues. Corporate speak --opinion discarded.

It gives me the impression of you being this type of player that never wants to spend more than 20€ on any game on this planet ever, even if it's Rockstar Games levels of quality and even if you get thousands of hours of content from it

Calling a skepticist cheap rather than responding to serious arguments shows that maybe you have nothing of value to add and resort to ad hominem. Relic, Rockstar, EA etc all have the worst kind of business models. The difference is that Rockstar, EA etc. will give you a decent game for 60$ and add a fuckton of microtransactions to make you shell out another 60$ but it's ok since the games are finished and complete.

With relic there is no guarantee of that, since they are not topdogs even in their own sector. They should be treated with the respect of an A-level publisher: good games, but not top. I hope COH3 is a huge success and launch Relic into fame, but right now skepticism is the only way to keep sane.

With relic there is no guarantee of that

So? Then don't pre-order and wait. I wouldn't recommend anyone to pre-order any game in the first place. But saying "omg omg 60€ way too big paywall" when kind of a lot content has been announced for launch doesn't make sense to me. CoH2 had the exact same price and launched with two (extremely poorly balanced #pay2win) factions and one campaign.

The Gaming Industry and its business models definitely became shittier compared to 15-20 years ago, but so did the over-the-top complaining by the customers about unknown variables or stuff they have no clue about because they mindlessly repeat stuff they read on forums or negative reviews. And you're the prime example for the latter

So? Then don't pre-order and wait. I wouldn't recommend anyone to pre-order any game in the first place. But saying "omg omg 60€ way too big paywall" when kind of a lot content has been announced for launch doesn't make sense to me. CoH2 had the exact same price and launched with two (extremely poorly balanced #pay2win) factions and one campaign.

The Gaming Industry and its business models definitely became shittier compared to 15-20 years ago, but so did the over-the-top complaining by the customers about unknown variables or stuff they have no clue about because they mindlessly repeat stuff they read on forums or negative reviews. And you're the prime example for the latter

First off I never said that 60$ is too much of a paywall.

What I said was what we have seen so far, and judging by Relic's attitude towards their own games, 60$ is too much. It's not about being cheap or not, but the value you give to something based on what you see.

Even AOE4, the spiritual successor of the most successful RTS game, launched for 50$ and it was kinda worth it (from what I have seen). Guess what happened then? The playerbase of the game reached COH2 levels in the span of just little than a year. Do you expect me to, as someone above said, "invest my time" in a game that in one year will have the playerbase of a WW2 rs from 2012?

That speaks volumes about what relic is actually making.

Even if you take the "good" numbers, meaning the times when AOE4 has double playerbase than COH2 (during breaks etc.) that's still too little given the hype.

You have to get it into your mind that someone can be both skeptical about something and wanting it to succeed.

This is the scenario we are in from what we have seen so far:

1) An RTS game like Coh3 will never have more than 10-20k competitive player base.

2) Somehow Relic is still around. Meaning they have sold more than 20k copies. This means 98% of their income is from casuals. This means single player campaign stuff and a small scattering of AI stompers.

relic has been working on Coh3 since 2017 or earlier. Yet we are 4 months out and their are tons of bugs and weird balance things. This means they have been focusing on single player only, as they should have.

You 20k competitive players will get the game no matter what. Even when I beg you not to buy it. And you will be happier if it gradually becomes good thru many updates. This keeps the meta from becoming stale. Coh2 is finally somewhat balanced and everyone is bitching like it is the worst thing ever. Do you really want a balanced game that never gets updated so you can continue to complain forever?

Coh3 will have a polished appearing single player experience for the noobs. The MP will be buggy and unbalanced. The maps are questionable since Mono is there now. He may stop them from making Lorch or Oka River ever again.

I have seen too many amateur things in the alphas to think otherwise. Like tanks driving on top of buildings. Units shooting thru what appears to be sight blockers. etc etc etc.

Is it worth $60? For multiplayer yes. You will be playing it for the next 10 years. Do I want you to buy it? no. Relic has screwed us too hard with their shit match making. They need to fold up and go away.

Games have been 60€ price range for ages and I get it now, the regular salary across Europe is not that great.

Games have been 60€ price range for ages and I get it now, the regular salary across Europe is not that great.

Mainly console games and pc games from certain horrible publishers.
I would complain less about a 60 euro price tag if I would be a Fifa, Battlefield or CoD mouth breather which buys yearly new releases with no care for actual innovation or questionable choices of monetization.

If you look at paradox games, they launch with 40-50 price tags if not even lower, and their monetization comes from DLC's, which to be fair have also a steady decline in quality since the new CEO, but thats another topic.

To say that "videogames are 60 euro by default nowadays" is a really dumb blanket statement which ignores the fact of indi devs, f2play titles and differences in publisher.

But hey, some people enjoy being stepped on. I for one wont stand for price tags that do not reflect value nor quality of the product.

I didn't have indie dev's in min, 5 years in development is a long time, even for an AAA title.

This is the scenario we are in from what we have seen so far:

1) An RTS game like Coh3 will never have more than 10-20k competitive player base.

2) Somehow Relic is still around. Meaning they have sold more than 20k copies. This means 98% of their income is from casuals. This means single player campaign stuff and a small scattering of AI stompers.

relic has been working on Coh3 since 2017 or earlier. Yet we are 4 months out and their are tons of bugs and weird balance things. This means they have been focusing on single player only, as they should have.

You 20k competitive players will get the game no matter what. Even when I beg you not to buy it. And you will be happier if it gradually becomes good thru many updates. This keeps the meta from becoming stale. Coh2 is finally somewhat balanced and everyone is bitching like it is the worst thing ever. Do you really want a balanced game that never gets updated so you can continue to complain forever?

Coh3 will have a polished appearing single player experience for the noobs. The MP will be buggy and unbalanced. The maps are questionable since Mono is there now. He may stop them from making Lorch or Oka River ever again.

I have seen too many amateur things in the alphas to think otherwise. Like tanks driving on top of buildings. Units shooting thru what appears to be sight blockers. etc etc etc.

Is it worth $60? For multiplayer yes. You will be playing it for the next 10 years. Do I want you to buy it? no. Relic has screwed us too hard with their shit match making. They need to fold up and go away.

Agreed.

Mainly console games and pc games from certain horrible publishers.
I would complain less about a 60 euro price tag if I would be a Fifa, Battlefield or CoD mouth breather which buys yearly new releases with no care for actual innovation or questionable choices of monetization.

If you look at paradox games, they launch with 40-50 price tags if not even lower, and their monetization comes from DLC's, which to be fair have also a steady decline in quality since the new CEO, but thats another topic.

To say that "videogames are 60 euro by default nowadays" is a really dumb blanket statement which ignores the fact of indi devs, f2play titles and differences in publisher.

But hey, some people enjoy being stepped on. I for one wont stand for price tags that do not reflect value nor quality of the product.

Even though EA, Ubi etc. follow horrible practices their games have a staple of quality unmatched in the gaming world. You may dislike COD given its the same redundant recipe every year, but at least it has next to zero bugs on release, has functional Multiplayer component and a huge people following the campaign. 60$ is almost guaranteed to keep you somewhat entertained. That's why these companies also pour tens of millions of dollars in development.

Paradox, Relic and a few others even though they make quality games are by no means AAA-tier publishers. Especially Paradox where they literally base their whole business model on a few cucks who shell out 20$ for them every 3 months. That's why, in my opinion, they will never be topdogs.

Say what you want about FIFA, COD, Fortnite etc. these games are all complete and ready to play upon purchase. PDX and Relic games are 50/50 if they work or not and if they don't the stupid developers will just say "Yeah we got you we will be releasing dlc to fix".

That's not AAA style of thinking. That's not topdog mentality. That's why they will remain small studios whatever the performance of Victoria3 COH3 will be.

I didn't have indie dev's in min, 5 years in development is a long time, even for an AAA title.

I think it's an on/off project. No way they develop COH3 for 5 years and show us THIS alpha. If that was the case, they are just plainly incompetent.

I think it's an on/off project. No way they develop COH3 for 5 years and show us THIS alpha. If that was the case, they are just plainly incompetent.

No they really are that incompetent. Relic is full blown retarded. All of the people who brought us great games are no longer working at Relic. Its all brand new people who do not understand COH.

No they really are that incompetent. Relic is full blown retarded. All of the people who brought us great games are no longer working at Relic. Its all brand new people who do not understand COH.

omg no words if thats the case

while i basically understand your points, coh is an exception, because:

i still zoom in and tilt the camera and it's like a FPS, i'm right in the battle. it's insane. and i did that already as a child in 2004 with DoW.

there is no other RTS on company level with such atmosphere, graphics, animation, sound and i-am-live-at-a-battle-feeling.

there just isn't.

that's why i will support this game

No they really are that incompetent. Relic is full blown retarded. All of the people who brought us great games are no longer working at Relic. Its all brand new people who do not understand COH.

Imo there is a real feeling Relic wants today to do better than before, many of the people who lead the design of COH2 and DOW3 failure left the company so I'm more willing today to give them a chance with COH3. (Not that I'm going to pre-order)
We've seen many things about COH3 but few for what we play the game today, multiplayer isn't in place yet. Relic is good at solo design the game, Ardenne Assault was already a really good single player campaign and they probably capitalized on it to build COH3's one.

Personally I don't care about solo, the campaign maybe be nice but that has never been the thing that trigger me in RTS games since the Internet ERA.

there is no other RTS on company level with such atmosphere, graphics, animation, sound and i-am-live-at-a-battle-feeling.

there just isn't.

that's why i will support this game

I agree 100% except for the fact that Relic management is a bunch of shit eating monkeys that all need to get fired. So I will not be buying Coh3. And I strongly urge others to do the same.

At every interaction I have ever had with Relic, management screwed up what everyone was trying to do. People had warned me years ahead of time that Relic management was trash and I thought to myself "How could they be that bad? You would literally have to be retarded to be that bad."

I have news for you, they are that bad. They have almost ZERO vision for their IP and what it should be. They sit in their little echo chamber and circle jerk each other.

80% of the stupid bugs in Coh2 could be fixed in an afternoon. Stuff like the "Dont use this model" model. Or the red branches that give red cover. Why were they never fixed?

Relic will shit out Coh3 too fast. Its sales will be decent at first then die off. And YOU guys will be left with a shit game. If you are lucky they will have no new things in the pipeline, cause of they do it will be DOW3 all over again.

I will just be happy when Coh2 finally dies so no one is playing my maps anymore. Relic please delete all my maps, you guys suck. Every time I see someone on my maps I am reminded of the people saying "Dont make maps for Relic, they are useless trash." And it is really annoying. Because it makes you question humanity on its basic levels. How can someone be this bad at their job? Its not even a hard job. How do you rise to the level of a Manager or Director when you have no concept of what you are doing at all? I am borderline stupid and I could do it 10x better than they are...? How...?

But for you guys and my maps future, I hope Coh3 is a success.

I have news for you, they are that bad.

I agree. The sad part is that its not even like they are making a brand new engine with each release.

COH2 is basically a mod of COH1 and COH3 is essentially the same. Like how can you fuck up a mod that badly?

This is why Relic went out of their way to disable modding. COH2 was moddable in the start and the modders embarrassed them so they took away modding for years and gave it back in the form of crappy modding tools that made sure we couldn't make them look bad again.