Tiger Ace robs 1v1 of great games. The spirit of COH is gone

Playing this game in it's current state is unbelievably frustrating. The essence of this game is close and balanced matches which are down to the wire. Those are the games you don't care if you lose because they were so great. Those are the games you queue 1v1 through hundreds of terrible players to find a single good match.

This single unit manages to undo all of this. Every close 1v1 game just ends as soon as as the Ost player hits 7 (8 soon) cps. It's not fun to win with, it just feels like you cheated and bough yourself a win. It's not fun to lose to, it feels like you got robbed of a good game (let alone a win).

All it takes is 2 clicks - one to select the ability, and one to target the enemy's base. In any reasonably close game, its impossible to counter 2 tiger's worth of value instantly. It doesn't matter if you managed to snare it half way over - its simply not dying to your 1-2 AT guns and 1-2 tanks while you are in a close match against the remainder of the opponent's forces.

The unit at least needs a fuel cost. There must be some way to prevent it. At least with a fuel cost the other player can actively try to counter it by denying fuel, or if the player sees very little vehicle presence they can read that the opponent is saving up. Maybe give at least a 3-5 minute warning "Our scouts have spotted a tiger ace headed to our front lines!". Maybe tweek it to be like vCOH tiger and serve a primarily anti tank role.

JUST SOMETHING.

http://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197961206676
SNF competitor.

Why not have the resource cut-off take place instantly upon pressing the Tiger Ace button, but have the Ace itself only actually reach the battlefield within a certain amount of time (3-5 minutes?) That way it would actually cost something up-front to a certain degree. Perhaps there could be, as you suggested, a warning to the Soviet player at the same time.

Can't say I've had much experience with the TA though, haven't seen it ingame yet.

Oh if i had a dollar every time i got to read one of these statuses, i could buys all the DLC's

Oh if i had a dollar every time i got to read one of these statuses, i could buys all the DLC's

word

Strongly disagree, The Tiger Ace is the ultimate HighRisk/HighReward Unit and it is very fun and very risky and also isnt so hard to kill if you realize this is a strategy game and part of that is thinking ahead and making steps ahead of your opponent. You see him buying vet you know what you Need to Prepare for if you are winning. If you are losing the game most likely your going to lose anyway and its just a nice game ender Imo oppinion so you dont have to play the game another 30 minutes even though you won it at 25. Seriously you guys its just a regular tiger with vet 3 hardly unstoppable quit being whiny little girls get some freaking balls and think and also if you gonna play a strategy game you better know how to lose cause its gonna happen

Strongly disagree, The Tiger Ace is the ultimate HighRisk/HighReward Unit and it is very fun and very risky and also isnt so hard to kill if you realize this is a strategy game and part of that is thinking ahead and making steps ahead of your opponent. You see him buying vet you know what you Need to Prepare for if you are winning. If you are losing the game most likely your going to lose anyway and its just a nice game ender Imo oppinion so you dont have to play the game another 30 minutes even though you won it at 25. Seriously you guys its just a regular tiger with vet 3 hardly unstoppable quit being whiny little girls get some freaking balls and think and also if you gonna play a strategy game you better know how to lose cause its gonna happen

+1

Strongly disagree, The Tiger Ace is the ultimate HighRisk/HighReward Unit and it is very fun and very risky and also isnt so hard to kill if you realize this is a strategy game and part of that is thinking ahead and making steps ahead of your opponent. You see him buying vet you know what you Need to Prepare for if you are winning. If you are losing the game most likely your going to lose anyway and its just a nice game ender Imo oppinion so you dont have to play the game another 30 minutes even though you won it at 25. Seriously you guys its just a regular tiger with vet 3 hardly unstoppable quit being whiny little girls get some freaking balls and think and also if you gonna play a strategy game you better know how to lose cause its gonna happen

It's not ''just'' a vet 3 tiger, it has a 0.5 dmg received modifier (meaning it takes half as much damage and so effectively has double health) and does double the damage of the Tiger's gun (320, equal to the Elefant). Of course, if your opponent is dead and you have a full army it's killable. But in a close game, where both players are equally skilled? Where the damn thing has supporting infantry to cap, (vet 2) panzers to screen it and pioneers to repair it? You're basically fucked. He can easily rout you and waltz into your base. It's not good game design at all.

Seriously you guys its just a regular tiger with vet 3 hardly unstoppable quit being whiny little girls get some freaking balls and think and also if you gonna play a strategy game you better know how to lose cause its gonna happen

No it's not. It has "Damaged received 0.5" as well, which makes it as strong as two vet 3 tigers.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/10974/here-s-your-f-ing-tiger-relic-replay
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10848/the-tiger--not-an-endagered-species
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10926/fixing-soviet-industry-and-elite-troops-suggestions
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10643/turning-point-sure-was-an-appropriate-name-for-this-patch
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10557/how-to-counter-tiger-ace-in-1v1
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10599/tiger-ace-ans-paid-commander
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10524/tiger-ace-rework
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10470/elite-troops-doctrine
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10463/tiger-ace-makes-no-logic-sense
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10230/elite-troops-doctrine
http://www.coh2.org/topic/10447/tiger-ace

Seriously? You couldn't post in one of those threads that already exist?

Well Ami might wanna create a "Bitching about the Tiger Ace" subforum soon...

Strongly disagree, The Tiger Ace is the ultimate HighRisk/HighReward Unit

Calling the Tiger Ace when he's left 40 VPs.

Still calls it HIGH RISK...

Strongly disagree, The Tiger Ace is the ultimate HighRisk/HighReward Unit and it is very fun and very risky and also isnt so hard to kill if you realize this is a strategy game and part of that is thinking ahead and making steps ahead of your opponent. You see him buying vet you know what you Need to Prepare for if you are winning. If you are losing the game most likely your going to lose anyway and its just a nice game ender Imo oppinion so you dont have to play the game another 30 minutes even though you won it at 25. Seriously you guys its just a regular tiger with vet 3 hardly unstoppable quit being whiny little girls get some freaking balls and think and also if you gonna play a strategy game you better know how to lose cause its gonna happen

You missed the point of this thread. This unit is broken in close matches, which make up the majority of high skilled games and is the entire purpose of balancing the game. No one cares if you're losing and get finished by a tiger ace. The problem is when you're having a very close game and a tiger ace hits the field. It's a giant slap in a face saying "haha I bought this pay2win unit and now I win".

Poor Raz... losing to a Tiger Ace you mad bro?

On a serious note. The unit is kind of silly. I haven't lost to it (yet) because of my love for T-34s and how strong ram tends to be against it. Well and I plant mines like they're going out of style these days but still - the entire premise of the unit sort of goes against the inherent principles that RTS games are built around.

"Maybe give at least a 3-5 minute warning "Our scouts have spotted a tiger ace headed to our front lines!"

This is an interesting idea.. I'm thinking 2.5-3 minutes would suffice.

Even though I've beaten this unit everytime and haven't won with it I'll say that I wish the tiger ace was just a regular tiger with a bunch of cool abilities. Ap and he rounds, a sight increase when the commander is peering out tank, a self repair ability for some munitions, and maybe a cooler design. To me it's still a well balanced doctrine. The opponent suffers greatly if he is constantly getting vetted units, he will have little fuel. It's so damn obvious when the tiger ace is coming to, get t34s and plan accordingly

The thing has so much durability, so much firepower, has incredible range, plus can blitzkrieg and use tactical smoke. The only time I lost one was from getting an immobilization ram. To be fair I only got rammed because I didn't even attempt to avoid it since I thought surely a frontal ram wouldn't penetrate, but I've learned my lesson and that will never happen again. The only mistake you can even make when calling one on the field is to do it when you have a very low unit count, just wait until you have some more units and then call it on. I got one in a 2v2 when we were pretty much backed in to our base and we just made sure to prioritize the T34s and then once they were out of the picture it just roflstomped everything else including but not limited to 2-3 IS2, ISU152, several SU85s, and several AT guns.

Strongly disagree, The Tiger Ace is the ultimate HighRisk/HighReward Unit and it is very fun and very risky and also isnt so hard to kill if you realize this is a strategy game and part of that is thinking ahead and making steps ahead of your opponent. You see him buying vet you know what you Need to Prepare for if you are winning. If you are losing the game most likely your going to lose anyway and its just a nice game ender Imo oppinion so you dont have to play the game another 30 minutes even though you won it at 25. Seriously you guys its just a regular tiger with vet 3 hardly unstoppable quit being whiny little girls get some freaking balls and think and also if you gonna play a strategy game you better know how to lose cause its gonna happen

Where is the "High Risk"????
Oh so if my opponent dominates me with his vet 3 infantry,I will spam SU85's like a utter imbecile ))

Where is the "High Risk"????
Oh so if my opponent dominates me with his vet 3 infantry,I will spam SU85's like a utter imbecile ))

You forgot the high stakes of calling a Tiger Ace stopping your resource income when you are left with only 50 VPs!!!!

UNEXPECTED!!!!

I would like to add something regarding Ace Tiger.
It was 2v2 game so I am not sure if I can talk about it as according to some players 2v2 mode is a completely different game with completely different sets of units and can't be taken seriously but I'll try anyway.

I had a game yesterday with my mate against a other team of decent Germans (one was rank 400 in 2v2, the other one was 150ish). I believe they work as a team as well as their attacks and movements were coordinated. The game was quite even with fuel points swaping sides and all that although we manged to hold onto VPs so we had like 500 VPs when Ace hit the field. I was using Armoured Assault commander my mate was using Partisan commander. This was my first game against Ace commander btw.
The initial appearance and push that occurred with the use of everything they got + Ace striped my off my 2 T-34/85 and heavily damaged my IS-2. We did some loses to them as well but the biggest threat remained surviving I believe 1 ram attempt as well.
Luckily for us we had heavy VPs lead so we just digged in with my Vet2 or 3 ZiS and IS-2 behind the lines waiting for enough resources to call in another pair of T-34/85. Map was Pripyat Spring so it was fairly easy to do so. I mined like crazy before but decided to add some more just to be sure. My mate got some Katyushas so we could bombard their position. I managed to sneak decap one of the VP points on sides. I managed to get these T-34s and succeeded with ram in the end so we have won this but it wasn't easy.
Now it was a 2v2 game so we had a lot of resources and units to our disposal but I can't imagine and Soviet player having access to that in 1v1 game.
This thing 2 shoots T-34s and there are only few Soviet tanks that can actually hurt this thing and the unit is free as well. How this can be even stopped in normal 1v1 game? Well lucky ram would work but what if you don't have access to T-34? These thing just drove over my mates SU-85s taking almost no damage in return. ZiS? Destroyed in 1-2 shoots. Normal T-34 is lucky to penetrate its armour.
From waht I can read on the CoH2 forums 1v1 is destroyed now because of this unit.

Yes, it's hilariously powerful.

The real issue for me is that the only counter is RNG based. Such a crucial, game-changing unit should not have a counter that only has a 40-60% chance of being successful, but if you do get off the ram, you will probably win the game. It's just insane, completely contrary to any reasonable design in a strategy game.

The reduction of what is still a fairly complex Real-Time Strategy game to these arcade mechanics in the late game is more of a slap in the face to veteran COH players than just about anything else Relic has some up with in COH2.

Why not have the resource cut-off take place instantly upon pressing the Tiger Ace button, but have the Ace itself only actually reach the battlefield within a certain amount of time (3-5 minutes?) That way it would actually cost something up-front to a certain degree. Perhaps there could be, as you suggested, a warning to the Soviet player at the same time.

Can't say I've had much experience with the TA though, haven't seen it ingame yet.

Cool Idea! that was my idea too, yesterday, so I guess it was your idea first. 3-5 will almost never be worth it though, I think 2 is pushing it.