vickers k

The thing do little to no damage at long range if equip only 1 gun to a squad and have to invest 120 munis to each squad to makes a difference but still under perform in late game, the problem is IS using long range weapon which defective in close range where vickers k shines, in such situation, only 2 models (if equip 2 guns) can make damage, i think volks have the same issue but their stg only cost 60 munis and equips to 2 model while can hold agaisnt vickers k for so long, why a 60 munis upgrade can trade so well with a 120 munis upgrade. I do awares of raid section and they're actually good using vickers k but not everytime im using that doctrine, im talking about the m3 in special weapon, the m3 itself isnt a problem but the vickers k on stock IS. Most of the time im using IS for long range and defensively (cuz they are that kind of unit) and smart wehr opponents like to keep their distance too, so if im using vickers k from m3 im at an disadvantage if i dont close the distance, and another problem is using a mid-close range weapon out of cover. Name any units in the UKF that have cover bonus and using mid-close range weapon, yeah there must be some kind of reason for that right ? then you knows how fucked they are when out of cover using mid-close range weapon, even bren IS (1 bren 45 munis) does decent damage to enemies in long range out of cover. Vickers k is underperform not worth its price and if im using special weapon agaisnt fussies blob then im fucked because they excels at long and close range (cant have crocs if you dont have infantry to hold fuel). If I have to use another doc then whats the point of special weapons having weapons that their infantry cant use properly, having mobile retreat point and can skip teching racks is cool but what its have to offers is a gun that degrade IS to shit.
The doc still good for frontline equips piat engineer and double vickers officer, AT sections, hold the line and crocs only proplem is stock IS with vickers k

Vickers K is not a long range weapon it actually a BAR.

If one wants long range weapons one should use a Brens if one want a mid range weapons that can fire on the move one should use a Vickers.

If one want a squad that can perform good at all ranges one can use +1 +1.

Vickers K is not a long range weapon it actually a BAR.

If one wants long range weapons one should use a Brens if one want a mid range weapons that can fire on the move one should use a Vickers.

If one want a squad that can perform good at all ranges one can use +1 +1.

I dont desires such kind of squad i do aware how balance works. Its just that "BAR copy" is so weird on a defensive long range squad with penalty out of cover, BAR works on riflemen because they are...riflemen. and using a doc that offers ability to skip teching racks but teching racks anyway is not so stonks

I dont desires such kind of squad i do aware how balance works. Its just that "BAR copy" is so weird on a defensive long range squad with penalty out of cover, BAR works on riflemen because they are...riflemen. and using a doc that offers ability to skip teching racks but teching racks anyway is not so stonks

If one equips infatry section with "BARs" they are no longer a "long range defensive infatry" and should not be used as one. This is similar G43 grenadier upgrade with which they are no longer a "long range defensive infatry".

And UKF have other infantries like the Officer and the R.En. that can also use the Vickers K

The original issue was that Vcicker's K and Bren's overlapped and did not offered anything different.

Making the weapon work differently was an improvement over the original design (although bren should be the "assault rifle" weapon and Vicker the LMG, since the Vickers K ).

If one want a squad that can perform good at all ranges one can use +1 +1.

"meh" at all ranges you mean. With this weapon combo you would probably equally lose against A-move grenadiers, G43 fusiliers and get totally stomped by Elite squads

If one equips infatry section with "BARs" they are no longer a "long range defensive infatry" and should not be used as one. This is similar G43 grenadier upgrade with which they are no longer a "long range defensive infatry".

And UKF have other infantries like the Officer and the R.En. that can also use the Vickers K

The original issue was that Vcicker's K and Bren's overlapped and did not offered anything different.

Making the weapon work differently was an improvement over the original design (although bren should be the "assault rifle" weapon and Vicker the LMG, since the Vickers K ).

But when grenadier have their G43 they became assault long range/short range infantry that worked similar to fallschirm but when tommies have vickers k they became crippling assault infantry with penalty out of cover its not the same I dont deny the fact that vickers k works on officer and RE but piat suited RE better. The vickers k is doctrinal and should be specialized, yes, but this treatment doesn't mean anything

"meh" at all ranges you mean. With this weapon combo you would probably equally lose against A-move grenadiers, G43 fusiliers and get totally stomped by Elite squads

If you mean losing at long range from long infatry yes
If you mean losing by more expensive squad yes
If you mean by losing by AI special elite infatry yes

but that would mean simply using them in unfavorable situation and imagine how broken it would be if they could win those.

But when grenadier have their G43 they became assault long range/short range infantry that worked similar to fallschirm but when tommies have vickers k they became crippling assault infantry with penalty out of cover its not the same I dont deny the fact that vickers k works on officer and RE but piat suited RE better. The vickers k is doctrinal and should be specialized, yes, but this treatment doesn't mean anything

G43 grenadier are not assault long range/short range infantry and have very little to do with fallschirm.

There is plenty of cover especially in late game battlefield.

In the end they of day if you do not like vicker K on infatry section do not use them M5 call is still a useful ability.

If you have another design suggestion for Vickers K that in your opinion it is better feel free to share it.

The only thing Vicker K good at is scaring enemies with their loud noice. Usually it takes year to see the dmg ramp up even when close range. I take Bar over VK anyday

The only thing Vicker K good at is scaring enemies with their loud noice. Usually it takes year to see the dmg ramp up even when close range. I take Bar over VK anyday

And that is by definition "perception bias" since the two weapon are practically identical.

Vickers K is not a long range weapon it actually a BAR.

If one wants long range weapons one should use a Brens if one want a mid range weapons that can fire on the move one should use a Vickers.

If one want a squad that can perform good at all ranges one can use +1 +1.

if you take 1 vickers and 1 bren, you are intentionally losing the game for yourself and you should leave the game, unless you lost by the time you realized your complete blunder

if you take 1 vickers and 1 bren, you are intentionally losing the game for yourself and you should leave the game, unless you lost by the time you realized your complete blunder

Answer a simply question, if you are facing Assault grenadier charging with sprint would rather have 2 Bren on your IS or 1 Vicers K and 1 Bren?

I don't own the commander, but putting a mid-close range weapon with on-the-move bonus onto a squad that gets out of cover nerfs sounds like quite a bad idea.

Mixing it with a Bren that cannot fire on the move makes it even worse.

G43 grenadier are not assault long range/short range infantry and have very little to do with fallschirm.

There is plenty of cover especially in late game battlefield.

In the end they of day if you do not like vicker K on infatry section do not use them M5 call is still a useful ability.

If you have another design suggestion for Vickers K that in your opinion it is better feel free to share it.

G43 performs well long and short range and fires on the move so its assault type. and they can trade well vs riflemen in short range, dont believe me just see it yourself via cheatcommand. i compare to fallschirm cuz they both good long and short range of course fallschirm is better because the damage is higher, i didnt say theyre totally the same, i didnt say i dont like m3 (not m5 btw) you clearly didnt read carefully. But if i have to change the vickers i say keep its stats because there are still units that use them well (officer, raid section) but the m3 drops bren instead

I don't know whos idea was it to make vickers K into Bar clone, but I can say that it was very stupid idea.

Vickers K did share similar role with bren, but performed slightly better. (Much better after price reduction & stat nerf)

And long range lmg suites well with Tommies who have very bad moving penalty & out-of-cover disadvantage.

Compairing it with g43 gren is not a great idea. g43 gives you 2/4 model equips with 80% moving accuracy with 60 muni and also gives you extra RA bonus. It literally turns the unit role to long range to mid range fighter.

(BTW vickers K has moving accuracy of 25%....)

Vickers K works well with officer (one squad restricted) / commando (don't have commander with both) / sappers (who are busy repairing with thx to repair speed nerf btw)

Main line inf. Tommy doesn't benefit much from it. Ofc it is better than default lee-enfield, so I'd pick one up when I can. But previous version was much easier and better to use.


And raid sections.... they are just a joke. Why would I want to use clone riflemen squad w/o snare?

Vickers K still has 33% chance of dropping, and probably thx to Lelic making programming mistake, RS can't upgrade 1 vickers K after dropping one.

Assualt section or tank hunter IS are pretty decent unit. But raid section is nothing but a waste of one skill slot IMO.

Answer a simply question, if you are facing Assault grenadier charging with sprint would rather have 2 Bren on your IS or 1 Vicers K and 1 Bren?

I would have 2 bren to deal more dmg until they sprint in front of me, and when they stop I'd just retreat. More mp bleed for them than 1 vickers & bren.

And that is by definition "perception bias" since the two weapon are practically identical.

Depends on who are using them. Riflemen is best when using them cuz they are mid range infantry with best dps on the move while tommy being downgraded while using them because the rifle models dont work well with the bar models. Example: in long range only the rifle models deal damage while in short range only the bar models deal damage plus out of cover penalty. But do we have solid proof that bar and vickers k are actually the same tho. I believe the bar is better at some point

G43 performs well long and short range and fires on the move so its assault type. and they can trade well vs riflemen in short range, dont believe me just see it yourself via cheatcommand. i compare to fallschirm cuz they both good long and short range of course fallschirm is better because the damage is higher, i didnt say theyre totally the same, i didnt say i dont like m3 (not m5 btw) you clearly didnt read carefully. But if i have to change the vickers i say keep its stats because there are still units that use them well (officer, raid section) but the m3 drops bren instead

Vicker K is superior to G43 at all ranges and Tommies have better received accuracy than Grenadier and can get extra entity.

Depends on who are using them. Riflemen is best when using them cuz they are mid range infantry with best dps on the move while tommy being downgraded while using them because the rifle models dont work well with the bar models. Example: in long range only the rifle models deal damage while in short range only the bar models deal damage plus out of cover penalty. But do we have solid proof that bar and vickers k are actually the same tho. I believe the bar is better at some point

I suggest you tried double BAR riflemen vs double Vicker K men 5 tommies in cover to cover to fights and see who wins in what range.

Vicker K is superior to G43 at all ranges and Tommies have better received accuracy than Grenadier and can get extra entity.

I'm not sure this is one of your word play or you just forgot, but grens get -20% reduction to received dmg. Which IMO much more helpful to the survivability or squad (not in small arms fight but because of tanks/indirect fire etc.) in late game.

I suggest you tried double BAR riflemen vs double Vicker K men 5 tommies in cover to cover to fights and see who wins in what range.

Vicker K has 25% moving accuracy & Tommies get penalty out-of-cover so they are one of the worst penatized moving dps squad in the game. And OTOH riflemen are well-known infighter in the game. Bar gives extra fire power to that. mid-shrot range fireamrs must consider moving dps as well as statinary dps because in reality, half (or more) of the time squads are on the move while fireing. And this also allows more chance of retreating squad wiping. Stop comparing assualt rifles dps just by statinary dps.

And raid sections.... they are just a joke. Why would I want to use clone riflemen squad w/o snare?

I am not the best UKF player in the world, but I use Raid Sections sometimes because they are by default a 5-man squad without the need to spend fuel on bolster and also because I like their model skin.