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russian armor

buff 251 AA HT OKW

4 Mar 2022, 16:14 PM
#41
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2022, 13:42 PMZyllen


Better? mate the flaktrack is not able to perform these things at all. Which is a problem because flanking chasing and killing lv's are a very important reason why i buy a lv. For the record, i agree that a vet 2 FT is very good at area denial. However the OKW does not need much in area denial as their AT guns can retreat and the occasional leigh has sufficient range to be parked next to flak truck HQ. so its value is rather dubious



You're confusing anti-tank LVs and anti-infantry LVs somehow. Only the Stuart does both competently, but the common complaint is that it isn't great at either.

Flak HT forces almost non-stop retreats and inflicts serious health damage and bleed, which OKW absolutely needs. An mg34 is absolutely no replacement for the mobility and damage output the Flak HT offers, and more importantly the mg34 is highly vulnerable to nades and mortar shells.

In any case it's bizarre that you don't understand the importance of area denial in a game in which 2/3 of your economy is largely based on your territories held, and the win condition is literally tied to holding three areas denoted by stars.


4 Mar 2022, 17:31 PM
#42
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770



You're confusing anti-tank LVs and anti-infantry LVs somehow. Only the Stuart does both competently, but the common complaint is that it isn't great at either.


No this is flat out wrong. The quad , american flacktrack and the 222 are all quite capable in killing both infantry and LV's


Flak HT forces almost non-stop retreats and inflicts serious health damage and bleed, which OKW absolutely needs.


this is just exaggeration. and why does the okw " absolutely need" the damage of the FT? they have the best and hardest hitting infantry in the game.



An mg34 is absolutely no replacement for the mobility and damage output the Flak HT offers, and more importantly the mg34 is highly vulnerable to nades and mortar shells.


The m34 doesnt come with a 55 fuel price either. i rather stick with the mg34



In any case it's bizarre that you don't understand the importance of area denial in a game in which 2/3 of your economy is largely based on your territories held, and the win condition is literally tied to holding three areas denoted by stars.


Area denial has nothing to with territories held, but making sure your support weapons are protected. The moment tanks arrive the lv's get reduced to guarding the rearline anyway.
4 Mar 2022, 17:59 PM
#43
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 129

I have only ever used this phrase as joke, but I think now it genuinely applies in this situation: This seems like an l2p issue.

Both playing with and against it, its comically easy to keep alive with smoke and common sense. Its not even much of a skill gap its all stuff you do whenever you build any LV like: "have screens" "get an AT gun at some point" and "don't mindlessly charge into AT walls" its just not that difficult. Why are you putting a LV in a situation that lets your opponent get 2 shots off on in the first place? If your unit dies, its your own fault for putting it in that position. It has good timing, good cost, good area denial/damage at vet 0, and with veterancy it ascends to a god unit that quickly mows down units that enter its range, and then zooms away before a tank can come to miss all its shots chasing it.
4 Mar 2022, 18:15 PM
#44
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 219

its survivability is great, no doubt there, its defensive capabilites are good.
But it still has a limited window for offensive use, until it must be retired to rear duty, just like SOV Quad.

I feel that USF HT can be used longer offensively before it needs to be retired to rear duty, though with added micro and correct buttonpushing.

270/55/7 seems debatable for something that has such a limited window of offensive use
5 Mar 2022, 04:57 AM
#45
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2022, 17:31 PMZyllen



Area denial has nothing to with territories held, but making sure your support weapons are protected. The moment tanks arrive the lv's get reduced to guarding the rearline anyway.


Wut.

"Area denial has nothing to do with territories held." That's such a pathetically bad grasp of the game's basic premise - even the Easy AI has at least somewhat understood the concept of capturing and neutralising territory. Holy crap. And that's not even factoring in more advanced concepts like denying enemy mobility and ability to flank through area denial.
5 Mar 2022, 07:18 AM
#46
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Mar 2022, 13:42 PMZyllen


Better? mate the flaktrack is not able to perform these things at all. Which is a problem because flanking chasing and killing lv's are a very important reason why i buy a lv. For the record, i agree that a vet 2 FT is very good at area denial. However the OKW does not need much in area denial as their AT guns can retreat and the occasional leigh has sufficient range to be parked next to flak truck HQ. so its value is rather dubious

I guess one thing here is that, that camp gets countered by arty while the half track doesn't. I.e. its more vulnerable later on.
But does the half track survive that long? No
5 Mar 2022, 11:20 AM
#47
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770



Wut.

"Area denial has nothing to do with territories held." That's such a pathetically bad grasp of the game's basic premise - even the Easy AI has at least somewhat understood the concept of capturing and neutralising territory. Holy crap. And that's not even factoring in more advanced concepts like denying enemy mobility and ability to flank through area denial.


This is wrong in so many ways. All light tanks and most allied LV's will kill a flak track 1vs1 so it cannot deny mobility or flank properly . It cannot hold VP's or SP because of that either. The only thing this unit is good for is guarding your rear line. And in such a role its fantastic.
5 Mar 2022, 11:26 AM
#48
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770


I guess one thing here is that, that camp gets countered by arty while the half track doesn't. I.e. its more vulnerable later on.
But does the half track survive that long? No


do you play 3vs3 or 4vs4? Because only in those gamemodes sufficient arty can be called in to kill a Flak HQ. But as i said before, the okw doesnt need much in a rear line defense because their AT guns are very mobile and the Leigh is rather crap.

If i play the allies my LV's will last me the whole game as it guards against axis LV's and infantry on my AT guns and pack howies. I even rebuild them when they are lost.
6 Mar 2022, 17:02 PM
#49
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Mar 2022, 11:20 AMZyllen


This is wrong in so many ways. All light tanks and most allied LV's will kill a flak track 1vs1 so it cannot deny mobility or flank properly . It cannot hold VP's or SP because of that either. The only thing this unit is good for is guarding your rear line. And in such a role its fantastic.


Honestly what rank are you playing at that your grasp of the game can be so horribly and insanely wrong?

Literally every player at competent ranks uses the Flak HT because of how insanely good its damage and suppression are, and most importantly it has incredible shock timing. It is not as strong as the Quad overall but flak HT does come way earlier and doesn't require a 90 muni upgrade cost. As an added bonus the Flak HT can counter sandbags and ignores RA bonuses. And no, none of us lose the flak HT in 1vs1 duels to enemy light vehicles because good players don't throw individual units out to duel 1v1 while watching for 30 seconds brainafk. I play with 250+ ping and even then I only ever lose my flak HT to medium tank dives and double AT gun one-salvoing the flak HT.
11 Mar 2022, 15:25 PM
#50
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1197

Quick note: decide to use Flak HT yesterday to rank it to vet2 to see if it really is that strong.





11 Mar 2022, 22:48 PM
#51
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 658

The only thing I would like to see is a price decrease to 30 fuel for the OKW AA HT when all trucks are unlocked so that you can have an accessible Anti-Air unit.
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