Pioneers - the biggest broken OST unit.

I made a similar post about this long ago.

Whermacht in general have access to some of the best vision tools in the game. Wether it is from free Pioneers, Sniper, Scout Car or spotting scopes, they have numerous viable forms of extended vision options while USF really only has Pathfinders. Which is problematic considering that the design for USF is based on Rifleman and "flanking" the enemy. Kind of hard to do that when you have a vision disadvantage at almost all stages of the game minus one doctrinal unit.

To be clear im not advocating that the Pioneer vision be nerfed but rather numerous options for vision be spread out across the factions in a fairer manner.

Such as Rear Echelon getting a vision bonus, USF vehicles not needing to hit Vet 3 (Stuart) just to do what a Kubel can at Vet 0

Combat Engineers getting vision bonus at Vet 1, things like that for Soviets instead of crutching so hard on T-70 for vision or Mortar Flare Spam (which should be nerfed if other vision options are granted)

LMAO the audacity in this reply.

USF have 0mp cuckfinders with FREE sniper, tons of vision and when spammed can absolutely wreck havoc in first 8 mins of game.

But NO, let's trash OST because they have good vision for pios yes that will fix the game Company of Heroes 2.

I made a similar post about this long ago.

Whermacht in general have access to some of the best vision tools in the game. Wether it is from free Pioneers, Sniper, Scout Car or spotting scopes, they have numerous viable forms of extended vision options while USF really only has Pathfinders. Which is problematic considering that the design for USF is based on Rifleman and "flanking" the enemy. Kind of hard to do that when you have a vision disadvantage at almost all stages of the game minus one doctrinal unit.

To be clear im not advocating that the Pioneer vision be nerfed but rather numerous options for vision be spread out across the factions in a fairer manner.

Such as Rear Echelon getting a vision bonus, USF vehicles not needing to hit Vet 3 (Stuart) just to do what a Kubel can at Vet 0

Combat Engineers getting vision bonus at Vet 1, things like that for Soviets instead of crutching so hard on T-70 for vision or Mortar Flare Spam (which should be nerfed if other vision options are granted)

Stop losing your m20

LMAO the audacity in this reply.

USF have 0mp cuckfinders with FREE sniper, tons of vision and when spammed can absolutely wreck havoc in first 8 mins of game.

But NO, let's trash OST because they have good vision for pios yes that will fix the game Company of Heroes 2.

I also think Pathfinder spam is obnoxious but it's equally audacious to cherry pick the one *doctrinal* unit in USF that many players currently crutch on to try and counter his argument. Especially when his post said Pios were fine (which they are) and not saying to nerf OST lol.

It does speak to my belief though that Pios are COH game design done right in that they are support squads with minimal combat ability(unless you upgrade with Flamer) that have a bonus to sight as additional utility. Maybe... MAYBE you could remove the sight bonus if they have the flamer upgrade as a tradeoff since they are more combat orientated now. The sight bonus is also less necessary past the very early game when HMG flanks can be super punishing for map control.

The most broken stuff in this game IMO are the high vision combat squads that are do-it-all. Jaegers, Paths, all Officer squads, etc. should NOT have above average vision on top of all their abilities and in most cases good to great combat ability. I get that the vision buff was a way to make some of them more attractive but it's too much and takes away from the FoW aspect of the game.

By the title I thought this thread was gonna address how (non-flamer) pios are pretty much the only unit in the game that struggles to get veterancy, apart from early game. Even sweeper combat engineers can get to vet3 by ease, thanks to their rifles.
If only pios received shared vet for their spotting support or could swap to rifles for free at BP2...

Even sweeper combat engineers can get to vet3 by ease, thanks to their rifles.

no they cant


lol

no they cant


lol

Depends on the size of the gamemode really. 4v4? not in a million years.

no they cant


lol

I know they can from personal experience. Not on their own, sure, but if they follow other mainline units just a few steps behind they usually get ignored, allowing them to stay in fights much longer.

No. It's 42. 20% further sight Range

Ok I will gladly get serious with you. Pioneers, as a unit, is a pretty useless one. It's not squishy, and if you don't upgrade with Flamer it's combat useless.

Its only upsides are in support roles: laying mines, barbed wire and seeing further than purely combat units in order to assist with target marking. That's a good thing, and it ties perfectly to pioneers design philosophy.

I think it needs no change whatsoever. Those kind of topics are really cringe imho, since you are literally picking and examining mechanisms that have been in place for almost a decade.

Cringe reply. No they're not. They're decent at close range. If anything it's the USF Rear Echelons who are useless in terms of combat. At least Pioneers have flame throwers and can do some damage at close range.
Also funny you whined about Path finders in your earlier post, despite the fact they're locked behind 2 commanders lmao

Wait until you find out about the sight range of Kubels, M3s, Pathfinders and snipers who all have essentially the same timing

you cant be serious lmao. Pios are present in the game since 00:00 minutes. Kubels cost 210 mp and are a dedicated scout unit. M3s cost 15 fuel+ T1 cost. Pathfinders are doc based and you risk no indirect like Calliope or Priest. Snipers duh again scout units. Pios? They classify as engineer units, they build stuff, repair stuff. Sov engineers? same classification no vision, royal engis no vision, echlons... like come on. Plus like sov build structure OSTs do make 2x pios so you have 2 ultra cheap units with extended vision.

Cringe reply. No they're not. They're decent at close range. If anything it's the USF Rear Echelons who are useless in terms of combat. At least Pioneers have flame throwers and can do some damage at close range.
Also funny you whined about Path finders in your earlier post, despite the fact they're locked behind 2 commanders lmao

My man the whole USF faction is locked behind 2 commanders, please get serious.