Ostheer Accuracy

yes, in that case the t70 drives to the other side of the map, knowing there are no threats for it whatsoever and can chase off harrassers
meanwhile your pak gets swarmed by 4 cons because now the sov player knows
when it gets repositioned, he drives the t70 back in. voila wehr gets pushed off

the alpha strike of the pak should have 95% chance to hit

I mean, I can also make up a story about the MG42 suppressing the Con squads, while the Grens faust the T70 with the PaK finishing it off. Voila easy win.
Does it prove anything? No, no it doesn't.

A normal Ostheer build are 1 MG, 3-4 Grens, a pio and usually a 222 when the T70 arrives. The Soviets have 4 Conscripts, 1-2 pios and then finally the T70. Maybe they were forced into Guards or an ATG themselves to counter the 222.

If your PaK gets swarmed by 4 Conscripts, you left it undefended. That's all. As I've shown you, your PaK hits most of the time, realistically probably 3 out of 4 shots unless you set it up with a tractor or something in the line of fire. Most of the time, you hit the T70 and it has to retreat and repair. If you lose the game because of a single miss with all of main line squads having 20 range snares available, that's on you.
Which is further proven by Ostheer having decent win rates across all modes, being down in 3v3 and up in 4v4.

222 timing = T70 timing?


Sounds like opponent Soviet player just outplayed you.

So i just played 5 Soviet games in a row.

I won all of them.

I ran around with cons and built sandbags. the 222 was no threat. for 2 min i just stalled with the cons with at nades. t70 arrived. the pak missed. the t70 then covered the flanks. then i built elite inf and a katyuscha.

once i saw where the paks and mg were, i fired the katyuscha, forced the pak to reposition or even decrewed it , then i moved in my blob and had map control

So i just played 5 Soviet games in a row.

I won all of them.

I ran around with cons and built sandbags. the 222 was no threat. for 2 min i just stalled with the cons with at nades. t70 arrived. the pak missed. the t70 then covered the flanks. then i built elite inf and a katyuscha.

once i saw where the paks and mg were, i fired the katyuscha, forced the pak to reposition or even decrewed it , then i moved in my blob and had map control

One thing I have never understood is the hard-on for rushing a 222, it is legit trash unless rng rolls your way or it hits vet2.

On another note I was thinking of you when I was full on raging yesterday. I am on a 6 game losing streak where 3 of those games were decided by some of the worst RNG I have ever seen. Rear shots on P5 bouncing(game probably registered as side), another game 3 shots on P4 out of position by IS2 and 2 T3485 missing or bouncing, I even had 2 Vetted Penals squads get beaten away by a non-vetted ober out of cover. Shit was insane. Not gonna lie I was like this is probably what Donnie feels like. Shit I even went to sleep angry promising to uninstall the goddamn game. Still pissed but it is the only RTS I play so got to just deal with it.

For anybody I played yesterday GG, sorry for being so salty.

One thing I have never understood is the hard-on for rushing a 222, it is legit trash unless rng rolls your way or it hits vet2.

For anybody I played yesterday GG, sorry for being so salty.

The 222, for only 30 fuel and the cost of a penal squad does everything the T-70 does but arguably even better relative to it's measly cost.It is almost immune to small arms fire, only being vulnerable to SMG-wielding infantry at point-blank when it's rear armor is exposed.It is often said that it's AI is garbage, but overtime it stacks on damage and forces squads away just like a T-70 does.

It forces SOV build orders almost entirely around countering it near the 5-minute mark.You get a infantry harraser that can easily outrun ultra-lights and destroy them without much effort, and it usually fucks over T1 SOV builds really hard forcing them into a early PTRS upgrade(noob trap)/build a early T2 for ZiS(meaning you're gonna be starving for manpower early game)/use a doctrinal AT gun such as M42(terrible in the long run) or airdropped support weapons from the Soviet Reserve commander which lacks premium tanks/arty strikes.

30F 280+MP is not a investement, and it pays off if it survives as if it costs atleast twice it's actual cost due to it's insane veterancy bonuses especially if you combine them with cancerous spotting scopes.The 222 has passive extra sight range unlike the T-70 which has to use a ability for it.It barely delays a P4 rush, which almost all OST players have been doing for the past 4 years, whilst a T-70 severely delays the T-34 timing.

Also, spotting scopes are truly cancerous and should be removed, I played a match yesterday on Port of Hamburg northern side, with my forces on mid.I placed my vet 3 T-70 behind a ZiS to spot for it behind mid, looking into the fog of war waiting for the OST player to attack me, what actually followed is that I saw a round fly out of the FoW and instakill my T-70 on Recon mode without me ever spotting what actually shot at me(it was a elefant).That Elefant was given more sight range than me by a P4 with spotting scopes even tho a P4 shouldn't be able to see farther than a actual recon unit.I have more than double his playtime, so if you ever wonder how easy it is to play OST there you go.

The 222, for only 30 fuel and the cost of a penal squad does everything the T-70 does but arguably even better relative to it's measly cost.It is almost immune to small arms fire, only being vulnerable to SMG-wielding infantry at point-blank when it's rear armor is exposed.It is often said that it's AI is garbage, but overtime it stacks on damage and forces squads away just like a T-70 does.

It forces SOV build orders almost entirely around countering it near the 5-minute mark.You get a infantry harraser that can easily outrun ultra-lights and destroy them without much effort, and it usually fucks over T1 SOV builds really hard forcing them into a early PTRS upgrade(noob trap)/build a early T2 for ZiS(meaning you're gonna be starving for manpower early game)/use a doctrinal AT gun such as M42(terrible in the long run) or airdropped support weapons from the Soviet Reserve commander which lacks premium tanks/arty strikes.

30F 280+MP is not a investement, and it pays off if it survives as if it costs atleast twice it's actual cost due to it's insane veterancy bonuses especially if you combine them with cancerous spotting scopes.The 222 has passive extra sight range unlike the T-70 which has to use a ability for it.It barely delays a P4 rush, which almost all OST players have been doing for the past 4 years, whilst a T-70 severely delays the T-34 timing.

Also, spotting scopes are truly cancerous and should be removed, I played a match yesterday on Port of Hamburg northern side, with my forces on mid.I placed my vet 3 T-70 behind a ZiS to spot for it behind mid, looking into the fog of war waiting for the OST player to attack me, what actually followed is that I saw a round fly out of the FoW and instakill my T-70 on Recon mode without me ever spotting what actually shot at me(it was a elefant).That Elefant was given more sight range than me by a P4 with spotting scopes even tho a P4 shouldn't be able to see farther than a actual recon unit.I have more than double his playtime, so if you ever wonder how easy it is to play OST there you go.

Everything you said is great in a vacuum but not entirely true. I have beaten back a scout car with not upgraded Penals, it actually take quite a bit of damage with decent positioning or an overly aggressive OST player. A lot of high end players even seem to ignore it and completely put off getting AT package/molotov upgrade even though it is signicantly cheaper than it used to be. The META now is pretty much pushing them off with any one of the regular guards commanders.

I don't think it is bad just seems strange to rush since the power spike is small, I feel getting mg->4 grens is better than mg->3 grens scout car rush.

...

Also, spotting scopes are truly cancerous and should be removed, I played a match yesterday on Port of Hamburg northern side, with my forces on mid.I placed my vet 3 T-70 behind a ZiS to spot for it behind mid, looking into the fog of war waiting for the OST player to attack me, what actually followed is that I saw a round fly out of the FoW and instakill my T-70 on Recon mode without me ever spotting what actually shot at me(it was a elefant).That Elefant was given more sight range than me by a P4 with spotting scopes even tho a P4 shouldn't be able to see farther than a actual recon unit.I have more than double his playtime, so if you ever wonder how easy it is to play OST there you go.

Stats do not back up your claim:

Elefant does damage 300, T-70 has 400 HP

In addition spotting scopes provide stationary vision while T-70 can move in reckon mode (can also cloak with AT doctrine).

In addition spotting scopes provide stationary vision while T-70 can move in reckon mode (can also cloak with AT doctrine).

free recon on each and every tank that you own > recon that disables your firing power

also you can have multiple spotting scopes and they have no drawbacks to usage, despite offering basically map hacks

free recon on each and every tank that you own > recon that disables your firing power

also you can have multiple spotting scopes and they have no drawbacks to usage, despite offering basically map hacks

Spotting scopes is doctrinal ability that comes restriction and a cost, they are not not map hacks and if in your opinion it is OP I suggest you start a thread about explaining why it OP. It has nothing to do with "Ostheer accuracy".

About 222...
Kimbo as OST


Not everything should be as strong as p4 or tiger to be impactful, especially when 222 becomes available. it is only 30 fuel and very low popcap, so if you lose it, it is not a big deal. If it survives and gets vetted, you have a spotting LV. I remember watching Luvnest playing as OST in a tournament and picking elefant with scope commander. He vetted 222 to vet 3 and put scope on it. He saw almost whole map lmao.

Spotting scopes is doctrinal ability that comes restriction and a cost, they are not not map hacks and if in your opinion it is OP I suggest you start a thread about explaining why it OP. It has nothing to do with "Ostheer accuracy".

ooga booga doctrinal ability, hence people want paths to be nerfed into the ground because they do the exact same thing spotting scopes do


you can see the whole enemy frontline and beyond with spotting scopes without a single drawback, and that's fine if wehr does it, and only fucking wehrmacht

Stats do not back up your claim:

Elefant does damage 300, T-70 has 400 HP

In addition spotting scopes provide stationary vision while T-70 can move in reckon mode (can also cloak with AT doctrine).

So explain to me then why a P4 with SS has more sight than a VET3 T-70 in recon? Nobody cares about the second part lmfao, it such a negligable difference because you're gonna be standing still whilst trying to get sight anyway.

About 222...
Kimbo as OST


Not everything should be as strong as p4 or tiger to be impactful, especially when 222 becomes available. it is only 30 fuel and very low popcap, so if you lose it, it is not a big deal. If it survives and gets vetted, you have a spotting LV. I remember watching Luvnest playing as OST in a tournament and picking elefant with scope commander. He vetted 222 to vet 3 and put scope on it. He saw almost whole map lmao.

TLDR; 222 is OP for it's low cost and investement value, it does everything well except in the health department.
You are unlikely to lose it early game if you properly micro it and avoid short-range allied snares, you vet it up to vet 2-3 and then just have it spot for your entire army from your backline, you don't even need SS but they are a huge bonus.

Also removing SS from Elefant did literally nothing, you can just build a P4 at the 12-15min mark, have it survive with SS till your Elefant arrives and then just spot and screen your Elefant's flank the whole game, extremely braindead easy strategy even someone with 700 hours can do.

So explain to me then why a P4 with SS has more sight than a VET3 T-70 in recon? Nobody cares about the second part lmfao, it such a negligable difference because you're gonna be standing still whilst trying to get sight anyway.

Probably for the same reason why a SU-85 can get more sight than UHU but that does not seem strange to you and does not even seem to bother you.

ooga booga doctrinal ability, hence people want paths to be nerfed into the ground because they do the exact same thing spotting scopes do


you can see the whole enemy frontline and beyond with spotting scopes without a single drawback, and that's fine if wehr does it, and only fucking wehrmacht

Apples and oranges.

Now can we pls get back on topic which is Oshteer accuracy and not spotting scopes?

Probably for the same reason why a SU-85 can get more sight than UHU but that does not seem strange to you and does not even seem to bother you.

More sight for OKW please, my KT hasn't sniped a squad from max range in 4 minutes!!
SU85 has a reason to get that much sight, if even a Puma get's within 25m the SU85 is dead, it relies more on sight than any other TD due to it's sluggish mobility/top speed even at vet 3.Care to tell me why Panthers and STUGs can get SS?

More sight for OKW please, my KT hasn't sniped a squad from max range in 4 minutes!!
SU85 has a reason to get that much sight, if even a Puma get's within 25m the SU85 is dead, it relies more on sight than any other TD due to it's sluggish mobility/top speed even at vet 3.Care to tell me why Panthers and STUGs can get SS?

You are simply of topic. If in your opinion spotting scope are OP I suggest you start a thread about instead of hijacking this one.
(I do have to point out that Spotting scopes are ostheer commander ability not an OKW one)

You are simply of topic. If in your opinion spotting scope are OP I suggest you start a thread about instead of hijacking this one.

SS are relative to the topic because they have a huge impact on Ost being able to get that first shot to demonstrate the "terrible accuracy" as OP believes. Every time you can't refute a point you cry that things have gone off topic, because you are unbelievably stupid.

So i just played 5 Soviet games in a row.

I won all of them.

I ran around with cons and built sandbags. the 222 was no threat. for 2 min i just stalled with the cons with at nades. t70 arrived. the pak missed. the t70 then covered the flanks. then i built elite inf and a katyuscha.

once i saw where the paks and mg were, i fired the katyuscha, forced the pak to reposition or even decrewed it , then i moved in my blob and had map control

Is this supposed to be meaningful?

Is this supposed to be meaningful?

why not? i was told the 222 has a huge impact and gives wehr a big advantage.

i can say that in none of those games i felt stressed unlike wehr matches, because the support weapons can be countered without much effort becaus they are unhandy and unreliable. the funniest games were when the p4 and paks missed again. the hardest games were those vs OKW