JP4 performance

Jump back to quoted post29 Sep 2021, 19:19 PMSkysTheLimit

Never really understood the armor on the JP4. It's a 60 range TD with a relatively small target size and it gets 160HP at vet 2 like you mentioned. Why does it need the armor?

I don't think it's horribly gamebreaking or anything, just find it confusing

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 13:54 PMthedarkarmadillo

. The understand the armour you have to reflect on the original design of OKW. their armour was all durable to help offset thier slowed income. If the jp4 was your only vehicle, getting swarmed by t34s could be devistating. Durability to be able to get the 5 levels of vet was a hallmark, even the lights were above average durabilty- T70 and Stuart were 320HP but the Luchs was 400, iirc the Stuka was 320,and the on top of everything else has smoke.

OKW didn't have a snare at launch either so the durability on a casemate makes sense in that regard too.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 13:59 PMVipper

JP was a T1 so it was expensive but when it was moved to T4 and had additional tech cost and other unit to compete with it did nto received a discount.

So currently its price/pop/XP value are too high for TDs vs mediums.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 13:54 PMthedarkarmadillo

. The understand the armour you have to reflect on the original design of OKW.

Jump back to quoted post30 Sep 2021, 23:49 PMVipper

or
you agree with me that JP4 durability does not mean much:

most other TDs can penetrate it frontally, and most medium tank can flank and penetrate it rear armor.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 18:46 PMKlement Pikhtura

that's just not true on so many levels. I've seen so many failed attepts of flanking jp4 with t34-76, it's ridiculous. Seen in my games, seen it in top level casts.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 18:46 PMKlement Pikhtura

And if you think armor is none issue, then lets reduce it to 140 and remove scaling.

Jump back to quoted post30 Sep 2021, 22:03 PMVipper

Great lets "nerf" it then and adjust the other stat accordingly. Lets lower its armor to 140 and the price to 320/110, pop 12 and XP value 1600.

And pls fix the camo, the unit does not fire half the time it is cloaked.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 18:46 PMKlement Pikhtura

Also notion that +160Hp does not mean much is bonkers, especially if you consider that fact that people use it to brawl with other TDs.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 18:46 PMKlement Pikhtura

The unit is fine. Not meta, but definitely useful in some situations.

Jump back to quoted post1 Oct 2021, 20:15 PMVipper

Since you disagree with OP that JP is "either OP or at least very close to it" and "this thing is amazing" I am not sure why you choose to argue with me and not with him instead.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 07:46 AMKlement Pikhtura

1) it was sarcasm. 12 pop cheap 60 range TD with 45 sight and low target size is a bad idea

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 07:46 AMKlement Pikhtura

2) because you post ridiculous stuff.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 09:04 AMVipper

Funny that you did not mention armor, so it seem that you agree with my actual point.

Armor is very important for brawling tanks less important long range TDs.

By your own description thou SU-76 should be had been OP because has a Pop 8, is cheap, has a range of 60, used be to able get a sight of 49 with tracking (all around I might add, plus mini map info) and target size of 20.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 10:32 AMKlement Pikhtura

su76 has crap chance to penetrate axis medium and heavy armor, while having low damage. JP4 can penetrate 100% of stock roster of SOV and USF.

That's what I meant by "posting ridiculous stuff".

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 10:37 AMVipper

And again you simply confirm my point, people who complain about that SU-76 complain about the gun and not about that fact that is has lower armor than Stug III.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 07:46 AMKlement Pikhtura

12 pop cheap 60 range TD with 45 sight and low target size is a bad idea

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 10:37 AMVipper

And again you simply confirm my point, people who complain about that SU-76 complain about the gun and not about that fact that is has lower armor than Stug III.

In sort the gun is more important than the armor for 60 range TD.

Now in your opinion is that "ridiculous"? because if it is you are "posting ridiculous stuff".

(and by the way SU-76 has 88% chance to penetrate a PzIV at max range so you might want to reconsider your definition of "crap")

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 11:14 AMKlement Pikhtura

It is 15 pop and 135 fuel now. You build 2 JP4 after your "nerf" and you save 6 pop and 50 fuel compared to what it is now. So what you proposed is OP af.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 11:15 AMMr Carmine

People dont talk about the lower armour of the su76 compared to the armour of the stug cuz the su76 has 10 more range and is 25 fuel cheaper.
Also allied armour values with few exceptions are already lower and axis can mostly pen every stock alled vehicle with ease so people accept it and dont complain.

The su76 can pen the ost p4 88% of the time. The vet 2 p4/okw p4 and Anything bigger and chance is 68% at best. Not that it is imbalanced or up but it still isent great pen for the late game. Just the su76 's timing just doesnt excist since the lv fase is tiny and the su76 provides what su dont need at that timing.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 11:15 AMMr Carmine

People dont talk about the lower armour of the su76 compared to the armour of the stug cuz the su76 has 10 more range and is 25 fuel cheaper.
Also allied armour values with few exceptions are already lower and axis can mostly pen every stock alled vehicle with ease so people accept it and dont complain.

The su76 can pen the ost p4 88% of the time. The vet 2 p4/okw p4 and Anything bigger and chance is 68% at best. Not that it is imbalanced or up but it still isent great pen for the late game. Just the su76 's timing just doesnt excist since the lv fase is tiny and the su76 provides what su dont need at that timing.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 11:55 AMVipper

But it would have 40% less armor than it currently has and yet according to you it would from fine to OP.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 11:15 AMMr Carmine

People dont talk about the lower armour of the su76 compared to the armour of the stug cuz the su76 has 10 more range and is 25 fuel cheaper.
Also allied armour values with few exceptions are already lower and axis can mostly pen every stock alled vehicle with ease so people accept it and dont complain.

The su76 can pen the ost p4 88% of the time. The vet 2 p4/okw p4 and Anything bigger and chance is 68% at best. Not that it is imbalanced or up but it still isent great pen for the late game. Just the su76 's timing just doesnt excist since the lv fase is tiny and the su76 provides what su dont need at that timing.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 13:02 PMKlement Pikhtura

please don't put any words in my mouth. I said sarcastically to nerf armor, without any mention of price reduction. And I do think that armor is very useful, because

1) handheld AT
2) medium tanks
3) some AT guns

High armor is a part of the design of the unit, same with armor scaling. I'm OK with that design.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 13:18 PMKlement Pikhtura

Pretty sure he knows all that. He just picks a single example to reinforce his point and multiply other's point by 0. He disregarded P4J, vet2 P4H, Sturmpanzer, Panther and KT, which are all stock vehicles. As if comparing su76 to JP4 was not ridiculous enough.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 13:02 PMKlement Pikhtura

End of the discussion.

Jump back to quoted post2 Oct 2021, 13:37 PMVipper

Now pls answer a simply question would you consider lowering JP4 armor to 140 while increasing its penetration 240/230/220 a buff or nerf?