USA scotts (M8A1)

I hate to say this, but if any "issue" is a l2p issue then this is it. I'm the usf player from that Duffman stream and he could've easily countered me if he had used a single brain cell, instead of running against a wall repeatedly. He even said his mistakes aloud, yet seemed to ignore them for god knows what reason.

Here's how you counter pathfinders (which btw are a 4-man squad with 1.0 --> 0.71 RA and with no snare which make them the most fragile combat inf squad in the game and calling them op is actually comical seeing JLIs are a thing): mobile light vehicles and smoke. That's it, there's nothing more to it. PS: Does this tip seem familiar? That's because it's the point axis players make, when allied players complain about their fragile tanks being cannon fodder.

And here's the last thing you do: build a g-damn flak ht, when you can see that your enemy has pathfinders and has gone for captain tier. Pathfinder + at gun makes that ht immediately obsolete. Luchs would have worked much better for him, instead he knowingly made the worse teching choice and that's his fault. Still, he could've salvaged the situation by utilizing a leig and its smoke barrage before pushing at me. But of course he didn't build a single leig the entire game. Unbelievably, this "pro" player didn't ever use smoke to his advantage when playing vs pathfinders and knowing i have the vision advantage.

Of course, his tier also has the best vision unit in the game as well, the ir ht, which he could've used to play the vision game with me, but that's seemingly out of the picture as well.

Instead he continues to bitch and moan about his opponent who has a seemingly idiotic build, while he himself is doing nothing to counter that said build, which btw can be seen coming from the first minute of the game.

Also, scotts only have 50-80 range, so they're well within diving range. Unlike real artillery that can confidently fire from deep within friendly territory. Making them any more fragile just makes them panther chow.

Speaking of dives and panthers, here's how you counter scotts. Make a panther, seriously. Do what 4v4 axis players do best and dive with those. Did I mention, the USF player has no real access to actual mines and pathfinder builds sorely lack snares. Oh yes, both axis factions get that hard counter non doc and with linear teching so there is no excuse.

How do I know these counters? Because I get countered when playing airborne USF every day by more competent axis players, that seem to actually utilize tactical thinking in an RTS. Shocking right?

Or, you know, spam obers and jp4s against airborne usf and watch your manpower go down the gutter. Then whine about your loss and blame balance.

Instead of l2p.

It is very problematic to dive something that is faster that p4, dies from 3 shots and have smoke. Not meantioning that the map is faily short, so you can gtfo to your base, while AT and jackson wreck your armor. This is not a katy, my guy

...Did I mention, the USF player has no real access to actual mines and pathfinder builds sorely lack snares...

USF has access to mines:
R.E. M7 light mine with temp snare that slow vehicles and make dives harder
M20 M6 mine ideal to stop dives

Doctrinal:
out of the 9 commander only 4 do not get extra doctrinal mines.

It is very problematic to dive something that is faster that p4, dies from 3 shots and have smoke. Not meantioning that the map is faily short, so you can gtfo to your base, while AT and jackson wreck your armor. This is not a katy, my guy

And yet people manage to assblast my scotts and jacksons with panther dives, usually double panthers. I didn't say that one dive solves everything. Usually they come in repeated dives, where I gradually lose my vehicles, jacksons usually go first. After that, scotts are free meat to panthers. Losing a jackson is incredibly easy during a panther dive, since pathing issues always favor the axis player (seeing as the allied player has to be the one reversing away, which never ends up alright)

I wouldn't call panther diving difficult taking into account their ridiculously high speed, maneuverability and 50 range, all while possessing turbo mode and possibly smoke.

Btw scott smoke is lockd behind vet 1 and is hardly a get-out-of-jail free card anyway.

USF has access to mines:
R.E. M7 light mine with temp snare that slow vehicles and make dives harder
M20 M6 mine ideal to stop dives

Doctrinal:
out of the 9 commander only 4 do not get extra doctrinal mines.

We're talking about airborne here, which gets no proper mines, period.

RE mines are a joke and have never prevented any armor dives. Suggesting leaning into them is actually hilarious.

M20 mine is god-tier. Too bad it's tech-locked and can hardly be spammed due to its high cost. In an open map, it's hardly a reliable option. That's why it's preferable to lean on skill planes, if you get dived.

If US had non-doc proper ap mines, you could actually have a point that airborne scotts are difficult to dive. As it stands however, this "issue" still remains as a purely l2p-tier problem.

+

If there is one thing I learned, it's that this forum like blowing "pro" players. If you have a good rank and your playercard is visible, you are getting mega-cyber-blown by wannabe academics. I've seen low rank people play really well and I've seen high rank people play really really bad, like extra bad. Extra mega bad. Just ignore people whining about spamming 2 units and that being OP. It's like a major case of L2P. And just like Vipper saying "oh spend pop cap and MP and backtech to get an M20 that you will never ever use besides planting mines that will drain your munitions", or use the low length stun mine that does no dmg and slows the vehicle down for a couple of seconds. Just ignore, that's the best course of action here mate.

We're talking about airborne here, which gets no proper mines, period.

RE mines are a joke and have never prevented any armor dives. Suggesting leaning into them is actually hilarious.

M20 mine is god-tier. Too bad it's tech-locked and can hardly be spammed due to its high cost. In an open map, it's hardly a reliable option. That's why it's preferable to lean on skill planes, if you get dived.

If US had non-doc proper ap mines, you could actually have a point that airborne scotts are difficult to dive. As it stands however, this "issue" still remains as a purely l2p-tier problem.

m20 is available stock and it is rather cheap.

Saying that USF "gets no proper mines, period" when one the best AT mine is available stock is simply false.

...
Btw scott smoke is lockd behind vet 1 and is hardly a get-out-of-jail free card anyway.

Is is worse than panzer tactician in any way (which actually got a delay), because I have seen that term used for panzer tactician plenty of times?

m20 is available stock and it is rather cheap.

Saying that USF "gets no proper mines, period" when one the best AT mine is available stock is simply false.


Is is worse than panzer tactician in any way (which actually got a delay), because I have seen that term used for panzer tactician plenty of times?

"Rather cheap"

No it's not, when you go cpt-tier. You call 250+50+240mp and 35+20fu cheap? Backteching is really not an option at high level play, when there is constant action going on and mp is being bled.

Now going cpt-tier is obv my own choice and I own it. But my opponent did a massive mistake, when he knows I can't have ANY real mines, so I'm wide open to all dives. Yet he keeps trying make jp4 spam work, when panther would have been the right play.

That's the point I'm arguing here.

RE mines can gives you time to reorganize your defenses but not stop a panther.

Otherwise spamming 3xObers able to frontally delete any infantry squad with no lose and bitching about 3xScott doing the same for a higher price is the definition of biais. And obers also get smoke to disengage

"Rather cheap"

No it's not, when you go cpt-tier. You call 250+50+240mp and 35+20fu cheap? Backteching is really not an option at high level play, when there is constant action going on and mp is being bled.

The cost of the unit is 200/20 and that is cheap.

If you prefer to unlock pak howitzer and AAHT that is your choice. And since you talking about airborne I have to remind you that can even have access to ATG with out Cap.

If you do not get m20 for mines that is a choice and that is completely different to claiming that USF players do not have access to mines. It like someone claiming that OKW do not have access to rocket artillery because one choose to built T1.

It is False period.

Now going cpt-tier is obv my own choice and I own it. But my opponent did a massive mistake, when he knows I can't have ANY real mines, so I'm wide open to all dives. Yet he keeps trying make jp4 spam work, when panther would have been the right play.

That's the point I'm arguing here.

"the USF player has no real access to actual mines"
"We're talking about airborne here, which gets no proper mines, period."

Claiming that USF do not have access to mine and that you did not have in particular game are different things. Even more so since in the particular game was a team game and your teammate was soviet and you could easily ask him to plant so for you if you needed them.

You still had access to M7 mines, to ATGs, to M36, to bazooka blobs and to AT loiter so you have plenty of AT even with out access to "actual mines".

On the other hand a Panther firing on the move on M8 has 34% chance to score a "natural" hit so getting a kill on the faster scott is not as simple as present to be.

I have to point out that I am not claiming that in this particular game OKW played perfectly, I am simply pointing out things that inaccurate.

+1

It's always easier to cry and blame balance instead of going back to the drawing board and adapt. In 2v2 and 3v3 there is nothing to blame but yourself for playing the wrong strat


I've gone against this strat multiple times already and as OKW your best counter is to play as aggressive as possible with smoke. Either leig smoke or plane smoke.

As wehr you can literally go for the old Elefant meta with double pak40 support. (Panther spam with JU87 loiter on maps where ele sucks)

Another argument I hear all the time is that it's "unfun to go against".
Guess what, going against the most sweaty-ass axis builds is the same, or someone thinks it's fun to go against G43 fusi blob with force retreat Offizier, p4 and JT?
Or a-move gren blob with spotting scope brummbar, double pak40 and elefant.

Guess the difference with these last two axis cancer builds is that you're considered a god, but as USF you're a cancer player

+1

It's always easier to cry and blame balance instead of going back to the drawing board and adapt. In 2v2 and 3v3 there is nothing to blame but yourself for playing the wrong strat


I've gone against this strat multiple times already and as OKW your best counter is to play as aggressive as possible with smoke. Either leig smoke or plane smoke.

As wehr you can literally go for the old Elefant meta with double pak40 support. (Panther spam with JU87 loiter on maps where ele sucks)

Another argument I hear all the time is that it's "unfun to go against".
Guess what, going against the most sweaty-ass axis builds is the same, or someone thinks it's fun to go against G43 fusi blob with force retreat Offizier, p4 and JT?
Or a-move gren blob with spotting scope brummbar, double pak40 and elefant.

Guess the difference with these last two axis cancer builds is that you're considered a god, but as USF you're a cancer player

+1 Nerf the shit out of Elefant, Jagdtiger, scopes and Scott and im happy.

In team games, i dont think the issue stems from scott or paths, what makes this strat very hard to stop is from the minute 0 because of aggressive ambulance. early game at vet 0 with no upgrades axis squads will not drop models quickly enough. Any faction being able to have a mobile reinforce/healing that early is stupid, especially when team mates are reinforcing from it too. But this is less of a issue on 1v1s and 2v2s.

Another argument I hear all the time is that it's "unfun to go against".
Guess what, going against the most sweaty-ass axis builds is the same, or someone thinks it's fun to go against G43 fusi blob with force retreat Offizier, p4 and JT?
Or a-move gren blob with spotting scope brummbar, double pak40 and elefant.

Guess the difference with these last two axis cancer builds is that you're considered a god, but as USF you're a cancer player

Preach!

The cost of the unit is 200/20 and that is cheap.

If you prefer to unlock pak howitzer and AAHT that is your choice. And since you talking about airborne I have to remind you that can even have access to ATG with out Cap.

If you do not get m20 for mines that is a choice and that is completely different to claiming that USF players do not have access to mines. It like someone claiming that OKW do not have access to rocket artillery because one choose to built T1.

It is False period.


"the USF player has no real access to actual mines"
"We're talking about airborne here, which gets no proper mines, period."

Claiming that USF do not have access to mine and that you did not have in particular game are different things. Even more so since in the particular game was a team game and your teammate was soviet and you could easily ask him to plant so for you if you needed them.

You still had access to M7 mines, to ATGs, to M36, to bazooka blobs and to AT loiter so you have plenty of AT even with out access to "actual mines".

On the other hand a Panther firing on the move on M8 has 34% chance to score a "natural" hit so getting a kill on the faster scott is not as simple as present to be.

I have to point out that I am not claiming that in this particular game OKW played perfectly, I am simply pointing out things that inaccurate.

So what I'm hearing from this is, that its completely reasonable for usf spend all its resources to fight off 1 tank ( to prep/equip and come prepared have your team lay mines ), but its not reasonable to change strategy's, to smoke and flank, or to use combined arms? OKW has access to everything it could ever need.

-240muni air strike , gets null and voided by an AA HT.
- jackson will die to a panther if its un support,

If the usf player can save up enough muni's to call in an air stirke, enough fuel for both the M8 and a jackson , guarded by inf and an AT,

In no world should you be able to drive up and just kill the M8 with a lone panther.
maybe on the same note of asking his team to lay mines, maybe ask ask the okw's teammate to side swipe the m8's on a flank

this shits the same argument from 5 yrs ago, that all axis players told allies,( smoke & flank & get gud,[game was literally broken then])

So what I'm hearing from this is,...

Maybe you should try reading again or ask for clarification because that is that is not what that post is about.

Do you agree with the claims that:
"the USF player has no real access to actual mines"

"We're talking about airborne here, which gets no proper mines, period."

Guess what, going against the most sweaty-ass axis builds is the same, or someone thinks it's fun to go against G43 fusi blob with force retreat Offizier, p4 and JT?
Or a-move gren blob with spotting scope brummbar, double pak40 and elefant.

Well you kinda called both of them the most effective strats in the same post

I mean, the sad truth is, no matter how many times you go back to the drawing board you will end up with the fact that you better off just picking the same sweaty-ass builds, no matter what faction you are playing, because without them enemy will just out-cheese you with his BS.

The only key difference between most of the cancer and sweety builds and Scotts, is that in right hands you can simply avoid any danger with them and coase enemy bleed without taking losses yourself.

+1 Nerf the shit out of Elefant, Jagdtiger, scopes and Scott and im happy.

+ 1 000 000 this is gold.

Edit: and if first two gonna get nerfed, I'm OK with nerfing AT overwatch.

Everybody says like you have to dive seemingly harmless build with panthers...just to deal with a unit that dies from 3 hits, which often translates to a lot more hits, because panther will have to fire on the move, while the target is cheaper then a T34/76. Cheaper then a tank that is often used as throw away/cannon fodder, when things go south, or to trade for a slow heavy armor. The target is far from slow and has decent target size...

I'm all for a good Scott, but its it is way too good now. I guess the time will tell, but meta is already picked it up, because I see it almost every time on USF in top 200 2v2, while simultaneously I see no Shermans M4A3s. The fact that medium tank with arguably the best AOE in its class became rare on the 2v2 ladder, should say something.