Should SU76 have 160 damage vet3？
11 Sep 2021, 10:22 AM
#1
Posts: 732
Same as PUMA ，I don't know what can 140 damage at vet2 do，it already the most expensive light TD but not have enough damage at late game.
11 Sep 2021, 10:28 AM
#2
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Same as PUMA ，I don't know what can 140 damage at vet2 do，it already the most expensive light TD but not have enough damage at late game.
It still cheaper than Stug III and M10.
11 Sep 2021, 10:55 AM
#3
Posts: 1289
It still cheaper than Stug III and M10.
It is also worse then both in anything but range and the barrage.
Because its the most fragile td its a challange to keep alive. So that should be rewarded.
11 Sep 2021, 13:07 PM
#4
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
The SU-76 has basically no stopping power, no durability, speed is not superior to the panzer 4, panther and not even a (vetted) stug, and has no turret.
the 10 range don't justify that a stug-3 has better AT (vet 0) stats than you at vet 3
the 10 range don't justify that a stug-3 has better AT (vet 0) stats than you at vet 3
the coh2.org forum experience:
11 Sep 2021, 13:10 PM
#5
Posts: 1594
The SU-76 has basically no stopping power, no durability, speed is not superior to the panzer 4, panther and not even a (vetted) stug, and has no turret.
the 10 range don't justify that a stug-3 has better AT (vet 0) stats than you at vet 3
The ten range, barrage, and lower price, you mean? If it retains barrage, the lower price, and the extra range, then the SU-76 should not have comparable AT performance to the STUG.
11 Sep 2021, 13:17 PM
#6
Posts: 281
The SU 76 has more range, better moving acc, barrage and is cheaper than the stug. Should be enough
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11 Sep 2021, 13:21 PM
#7
Posts: 732
It still cheaper than Stug III and M10.
They both have 160 damage at default.
11 Sep 2021, 13:46 PM
#8
Posts: 786 | Subs: 1
The ten range, barrage, and lower price, you mean? If it retains barrage, the lower price, and the extra range, then the SU-76 should not have comparable AT performance to the STUG.
its a vet 3 buff lmao, and it only lets the su-76 have the damage of the zis gun
they can always make it a bootleg sherman with HE if you think the su doesn't deserve better AT
the coh2.org forum experience:
11 Sep 2021, 14:16 PM
#9
Posts: 1289
The ten range, barrage, and lower price, you mean? If it retains barrage, the lower price, and the extra range, then the SU-76 should not have comparable AT performance to the STUG.
The longer range being cheaper and barrage do make the su76 fine intialy. But unlike the stug the su76 lacks scaling. Esp considering axis get 260 armour 900 plus hp tanks stock.
The sturdier stug with vet becomes faster then the flimsy su76. Why does the stug get to have simaler/faster mobility with vet and the su76 should not have comparable at with vet 3?
The 160 damage at vet should be the reward for keeping a turretles flimsy low damage unit alive.
11 Sep 2021, 14:21 PM
#10
Posts: 1660
Both Puma and Su76 should get 160 damage with vet. This rewards players that invest on them and keep them alive. Everything falls compared to TD/medium meta because they are safer investments
11 Sep 2021, 14:26 PM
#11
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
They both have 160 damage at default.
I only pointed that it not the "most expensive light TD".
11 Sep 2021, 15:07 PM
#12
Posts: 1594
its a vet 3 buff lmao, and it only lets the su-76 have the damage of the zis gun
they can always make it a bootleg sherman with HE if you think the su doesn't deserve better AT
"Only" lets it have the damage of the ZiS (Or The P4, Cromwell, Sherman, SU-85, Jackson, etc). 160 damage is an important breakpoint as you well know. Not really sure why you're trying to downplay it.
The longer range being cheaper and barrage do make the su76 fine intialy. But unlike the stug the su76 lacks scaling. Esp considering axis get 260 armour 900 plus hp tanks stock.
The sturdier stug with vet becomes faster then the flimsy su76. Why does the stug get to have simaler/faster mobility with vet and the su76 should not have comparable at with vet 3?
The 160 damage at vet should be the reward for keeping a turretles flimsy low damage unit alive.
The Stug gets better mobility because it has lower range. That's the tradeoff.
The SU-76 gets scaling through an improved barrage range and cooldown, alongside better accuracy/reload. (and ultimately better penetration values than the STUG).
11 Sep 2021, 15:27 PM
#13
Posts: 1289
The Stug gets better mobility because it has lower range. That's the tradeoff.
The SU-76 gets scaling through an improved barrage range and cooldown, alongside better accuracy/reload. (and ultimately better penetration values than the STUG).
The trade off for the stug is also that it is sturdier and can stun. The at guns that support it can also stun (both with vet) these imo also are trade offs for it having 50 range instead of 60.
The barrage is situational and raw stats buffs trump ability buffs. The stug has very much the same rof as the su76 at vet 3. Meaning the stug gets a bigger rof buff then then the su76 just as a bigger mobility buff.
The stug has higher base pen wich allows it it pen pen almost all allied stock vehicles 100% at max range unlike the su76. And afaik the su76 doesnt get any pen buffs with vet. And as their rof at vet is simaler and dont see the su76 getting higher overall pen via sheer rof.
11 Sep 2021, 15:37 PM
#14
Posts: 1594
And afaik the su76 doesnt get any pen buffs with vet.
You're right, my mistake. The statistics spreadsheet I was looking at is outdated.
I don't know that the Barrage is all that situational though, It's an absolutely core part of ZiS strategy, and i have no reason to believe that using it on your SU-76 is worse.
11 Sep 2021, 15:44 PM
#15
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You're right, my mistake. The statistics spreadsheet I was looking at is outdated.
I don't know that the Barrage is all that situational though, It's an absolutely core part of ZiS strategy, and i have no reason to believe that using it on your SU-76 is worse.
SU-76 barrage is better than zis. It has more range and even get more damage with vet.
11 Sep 2021, 16:39 PM
#16
Posts: 61
Increase pen and make the barrage free or a significantly reduced price at vet 3 or t3 instead.
The problem with the SU76 is that it is redundant. Right now, it's mainly built if you're behind on teching to keep tanks away and counter ostwinds (which can destroy it easily but nevertheless). The su85 fills the pure TD role for the Soviets, so the SU76 should get something that differentiates it. In earlier builds of the game it was purchased purely for the free barrage and I think that should be brought back with vet.
The problem with the SU76 is that it is redundant. Right now, it's mainly built if you're behind on teching to keep tanks away and counter ostwinds (which can destroy it easily but nevertheless). The su85 fills the pure TD role for the Soviets, so the SU76 should get something that differentiates it. In earlier builds of the game it was purchased purely for the free barrage and I think that should be brought back with vet.
11 Sep 2021, 18:23 PM
#17
Posts: 219
specs of su-76 is fine, except the timing, expecting a 260/75 8 pop TD to compete in late game should be limited, just like any other contemporary ''light'' tanks.
Though i agree that it lacks a place, it isn't bad whatsoever.
it performs well for its cost, so perhaps change the su-76?
-nerf some aspects for a cheaper price, to make it more viable and arrive earlier.
-buff the su-76 for a true multi-purpose like it was IRL for a cost increase.
Though i agree that it lacks a place, it isn't bad whatsoever.
it performs well for its cost, so perhaps change the su-76?
-nerf some aspects for a cheaper price, to make it more viable and arrive earlier.
-buff the su-76 for a true multi-purpose like it was IRL for a cost increase.
OST Wehraboo 4v4 main
11 Sep 2021, 18:28 PM
#18
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
specs of su-76 is fine, except the timing, expecting a 260/75 8 pop TD to compete in late game should be limited, just like any other contemporary ''light'' tanks.
Though i agree that it lacks a place, it isn't bad whatsoever.
it performs well for its cost, so perhaps change the su-76?
-nerf some aspects for a cheaper price, to make it more viable and arrive earlier.
-buff the su-76 for a true multi-purpose like it was IRL for a cost increase.
or delay T4 for all faction so that window of opportunity for all lower is increased...
11 Sep 2021, 19:42 PM
#19
Posts: 1289
You're right, my mistake. The statistics spreadsheet I was looking at is outdated.
I don't know that the Barrage is all that situational though, It's an absolutely core part of ZiS strategy, and i have no reason to believe that using it on your SU-76 is worse.
Situational isent the best way to discribe when you say it like this. Yes i agree the barrage is the core of the su76.
What i am getting at is the barrage is imo rarely so effective that it makes the the su76 a viable choice. Taking the armour pen and hp disparety in the late gamebetween axis and allies into account.
The barrage is still usefull dont get me wrong but at long range at most it forces a say mg to move at best. At close range it can kill but easely be killed.
So to sum it up its usefull but nothing great or high impact.
11 Sep 2021, 19:43 PM
#20
Posts: 1289
or delay T4 for all faction so that window of opportunity for all lower is increased...
I really hope this gets into coh3 at least. And even better if coh 2 got it as well.
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