Black Prince Poll

lmao historical accuracy is not why relics reputation took a hit

Yeah, tell me how the reputation has not suffered after the "Historically accurate" CoH2 single player campaign.

Yeah, tell me how the reputation has not suffered after the "Historically accurate" CoH2 single player campaign.

all the more reason why adding the BP isn’t a big deal

because no one can prove me wrong, you have it in your mind coh2 is about historical accuracy when it isn’t , the franchise is chock full of units that are rediculous and you come with stupid reasons why it should be included

But I already gave my refute: That every unit in COH and COH2 has been used in combat service and were put into divisions during WW2. You gave your counter argument about V1 rockets, Infrared STGs, and Sturmtigers and I and others countered with V1 rockets being use strategically, Infrared STGs seeing combat during the last few months in WW2, and Sturmtigers being made and put into divisions and used in a role similar to the Soviet KV2, which also had a very small amount made, even more so when compared to other soviet tanks produced during WW2.

I never said how the units should work in game, I was just stating that the units represented should at the very least did something combat-wise in WW2. You're only arguments at this point has been ignoring counter arguments, saying what is essentially "I'm right but I wont say why" and calling people wehraboos.

you’re defending infrared assaults, but a tank and your throwing a fit

You mean those Infrared "Assaults" that the Germans actually made use of?

I seriously do not understand why you can't seem to grasp the difference between things that were used in WWII and things that were not used in WWII.

Wehraboos coming out of the woodwork to cry about prototype units is probably the most delicious irony I've seen in a while

Wehraboos coming out of the woodwork to cry about prototype units is probably the most delicious irony I've seen in a while

What about actual points that make sense instead of buzzwords?

What about actual points that make sense instead of buzzwords?

The point is that if axis gets borderline make-believe crap, so can the allies

The point is that if axis gets borderline make-believe crap, so can the allies

Borderline make-believe crap such as what?

Though this is still pretending as though the BP is "Borderline" anything. It simply wasn't used at all. Having to weasel around like that to make these things seem as though they're comparable is rather telling.

Borderline make-believe crap such as what?

Though this is still pretending as though the BP is "Borderline" anything. It simply wasn't used at all. Having to weasel around like that to make these things seem as though they're comparable is rather telling.

luftwaffe existing in '44
tactical v1 strikes
axis terminator ubersoldaten
rudimentary thermal sights providing maphacks when in reality they were basically worthless during the day, not to mention extremely prone to breakdown and unwieldy
omnipresent big cats

the list goes on

"Your counters to German almost fantasy kit weren't actually ever produced!" (HISTORY!)

"Well they weren't produced because that almost-fantasy kit barely ever appeared on a battlefield, in almost no numbers, and they didn't work!" (HISTORY!)

"But then it isn't historical to have kit that wasn't ever on the battlefield!" (HISTORY!)

"It wasn't on the battlefield because they had dozens of mediums for every German cat they encountered, at tleast those that actually ran! You can have your KTs, give me a dozen shermans for each." (HISTORY!)

"You can't make it historical or the game wouldn't be balanced!"

Yes, generally we don't see a historical accuracy direction here. As we see campaign will give us a lot of freedom in choosing what we will do, probably similar in Arden Assault very small information how it truelly ended. Yet, at least there should be units for that time period. Technicly the campaign should work as a historical buffor and multiplayer is everything for everyone.

Yet, even from multiplayer aspect, the game would be a much better to play with both sides has similar level of units. As much as playing KT or Strumtiger brings a lot of fun but overall it's much better if we don't add those extra heavies and focus on equipment that both sides had in 1942-43.

What do you mean both sides having similar level of units?

The Black Prince is a Churchill, a very meaty tank, but with a 17 pounder gun so basically on steroids lol.

So unless the Tiger is as effective I don't really see a direct counter to it.

But like I said I'm all for a little bit of fantasy if the Black Prince remains, King Tiger, Sherman Jumbo, hell even the Pershing even if the tanks that saw combat can be counted on your fingers since they entered service at the very late stage of 1945.

Same with the Comet, I'm with with even if it's in the same boat as the Pershing, but then again that will all bring back the complaints from CoH2.

Africa is sort of similar, the Tiger there will be the best tank probably in terms of stats as the Allies had no real counter to it there except for the few 17 pounder mounted on the 25 pounder carriages.

That's why I think either stick to history and disregard any complaints about balance which might anger certain people, or go on full fantasy.

Because being in between will anger people on both sides.

Wehraboos coming out of the woodwork to cry about prototype units is probably the most delicious irony I've seen in a while

And what are you, Allied fanboy?

Aren't you a hypocrite for only constantly shitting on the Axis because GeRmaN MaN bAd cuZ NaZI.

The only German vehicles that I can think of which saw limited service during the war are the Ostwind and Panzerwerfer from the previous games. I personally also wouldn't have made the King Tiger a default unit for the OKW in CoH2 but that's how they went with it.

While on the Allied side you got both the Pershing and the Comet which are both their heaviest tanks and direct counters at least to the Panther which again as I already said, both only saw limited service at the very end of the war.

So I'd imagine a lot more crying from your side if those units weren't included either.

The best thing that I can probably suggest to you is to drop your edgy teenager bias and actually realize that either both sides should have units of comparable strengths or neither should so things are balanced and people are happy because games are meant to be fun first and foremost, hence why Relic decided to include these ultra rare late war tanks to counter the German heavies.

Because believe me, even if this game was realistic, you'll rage quit from losing one tank after another from a Tiger one shotting them halfway across the map way before it broke down or ran out of fuel and ammo, and if you want to see it for yourself you're more than welcome to try out Gates of Hell then.

Who cares? coh was never about realism, no one is crying about infrared stg44's in coh or ultra rare units like the ostwind

Plus one to this.

love how hating nazis is now edgy teenage bias
stay classy werhbs

luftwaffe existing in '44
tactical v1 strikes
axis terminator ubersoldaten
rudimentary thermal sights providing maphacks when in reality they were basically worthless during the day, not to mention extremely prone to breakdown and unwieldy
omnipresent big cats

the list goes on

1 - The Luftwaffe did exist in 1944, and they still fought/engaged in operations. They weren't as widespread as previously, but they didn't ground every single plane, as much as you might like to pretend.

2 - V1 rockets were used tactically. The bombing of the previously mentioned bridge was a tactical action, despite what the uninformed might like to pretend. That said: I would prefer they werent in CoH3.

3 - An unit being strong has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. Try again.

4 - "Night" isnt a gameplay mechanic in CoH2. The devices were used in WWII, and their implementation in CoH2 is pretty much the closest you could get to their actual use within the limits of the game. They don't provide maphacks, by the way. The Uhu hasn't done that for absolutely ages, which was a good change.

5 - "Omnipresent" big cats? How many do you typically build during a game? Thousands of Panthers and Tigers were built during the war. There is even a limit of a single Tiger being called at once to represent the fact they (like any of the other very heavy tanks) were not as readily available as other vehicles.


Try harder.

love how hating nazis is now edgy teenage bias
stay classy werhbs

Whining about "Nazis" in the context of a videogame is pretty childish, yes.

love how hating nazis is now edgy teenage bias
stay classy werhbs

Stop trying to derail this thread into making it into axis vs allies while the original argument is historical vs a historical units in COH.

Its a fucking video game, you troglodytes. If you want historical accuracy read a goddamn book or go to a museum. Liberties have to be taken to make it balanced and fun FOR ALL SIDES. Someone close this thread; lets judge the product once its actually finished.

What do you mean both sides having similar level of units?

The Black Prince is a Churchill, a very meaty tank, but with a 17 pounder gun so basically on steroids lol.

So unless the Tiger is as effective I don't really see a direct counter to it.

You replay yourself with what i meant. There is no need to enter such a heavy tank section especially that it's unlikely we gonna see a KT and Jagpanther in first year of the game after release. It's really not needed to have so late war/post war stuff

But like I said I'm all for a little bit of fantasy if the Black Prince remains, King Tiger, Sherman Jumbo, hell even the Pershing even if the tanks that saw combat can be counted on your fingers since they entered service at the very late stage of 1945.

Same with the Comet, I'm with with even if it's in the same boat as the Pershing, but then again that will all bring back the complaints from CoH2.

Africa is sort of similar, the Tiger there will be the best tank probably in terms of stats as the Allies had no real counter to it there except for the few 17 pounder mounted on the 25 pounder carriages.

That's why I think either stick to history and disregard any complaints about balance which might anger certain people, or go on full fantasy.

You want to have fun with Africa war from 1941-1943, then Italy 1943-44 and you get tanks and weapons that doesn't fit that period. You gonna have Matilda tank, PIII so the best and heavies stuff should be Tiger I and Churchill M3 tank.
Some fantasy won't harm in multi but campaign shouldn't have that. It impacts immersion overall.

Its a fucking video game, you troglodytes. If you want historical accuracy read a goddamn book or go to a museum. Liberties have to be taken to make it balanced and fun FOR ALL SIDES. Someone close this thread; lets judge the product once its actually finished.

Well its Pre-Alpha right now so things can be changed. And Relic wanted feedback. This is Feedback.

They could literally just replace the Black Prince with the Churchill 75NA with pretty much the same stats, and make it so that the regular Churchill upguns from a 2 pounder to a 6 pounder with an upgrade in the files and be done with it.

The Churchill 75NA was optimized for HE shells. The british amry replaced the 6pdr with the Sherman 75mm because the HE shells were much better and because of the small numbers of german tanks in the italian theater the british used their numbers to convert some Churchill into infantry support versions.

So the Churchill 75NA is no match to the 17pdr anti tank focused Black Prince.