Pathfinders?

Because complaining about RECON UNITS sight is just as retarded as complaining about ATGs owning vehicles or snipers one-shotting infantry models, especially considering the fact that their sight is no greater then any other recon unit.

He is right, Modding team should remove the extra vision range from pioneer, they've nothing to do with it.

Because complaining about RECON UNITS sight is just as retarded as complaining about ATGs owning vehicles or snipers one-shotting infantry models, especially considering the fact that their sight is no greater then any other recon unit.

This isn't surprising coming from you, but you still FAILED to mention the timing in which Pathfinders enter the game, with godly sight compared to any other unit available to any other faction at that time of the game. So please, until you play your first Axis game - be quiet and keep your allied fan boy opinions to yourself.

Standard Vision for most units in the game is 35

Whermacht
Pioneers - 42 Vision Range

Officers - 50 Vision Range

Sniper
Base - 45 Vision Range
Vet 2 - 55 Vision Range

SdKfz 222
Base - 50 Vision Range
Vet 2 - 65 Vision Range
Scopes Vet 0 - 70 Vision Range
Scopes Vet 2 - 91 Vision Range

SdKfz 251/1 Half-track
Base - 35 Vision Range
Vet 3 - 45 Vision Range
Scopes Vet 0 - 70 Vision Range
Scopes Vet 3 - 90 Vision Range


Spotting Scopes All other Vehicles = 70 Vision Range



OKW
Kubelwagon - 50 Vision Range

Officers - 50 Vision Range

JLI - 50 Vision Range

Panzerfusiliers
Base - Vision Range 35
G43 Upgrade - Vision Range 42

Spotlight Halftrack - 90 Vision Range

Puma - 50 Vision Range
Vet 2 - 58 Vision Range

Panzer Commander Upgrade - +6 Vision Range

Command Panther Aura
+20 Vision Range to all Vehicles; Basically 55 Sight for all Vehicles



USF
Pathfinders - 50 Vision Range

M20 Utility Car - 50 Vision Range
Vet 1 - 60 Vision Range


WC51 - 50 Vision Range
Vet 1 - 55 Vision Range

M5A1 Stuart
Base Vision - 35 Vision
Vet 1 - 43 Vision

M1 57mm Anti-Tank Gun
Base Vision - 35 Vision
Vet 1 Take Aim Ability - 61 Vision for 20 seconds for 30 Ammo


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Standard Vision for most units in the game is 35
Panzerfusiliers
Base - Vision Range 35
G43 Upgrade - Vision Range 42

AFAIK this applies to every squad with G43s including OST Jaeger Command Squad. All seem to have 42 sight range.

Standard Vision for most units in the game is 35


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USF indirects got nerfed because most of the balance team had a problem with them, along with some of the more prominent axis players. Sander, a purely OKW player along with Sturmpanther, a mostly axis player, gave in to these "demands" as they were going in their favour as well. There were thread after thread about CalliOP (calliope did deserve a nerf, but not in the health, but agility), or PakHowi OP. Balance team, mostly comprised of axis players, were probably delighted to see it and therefore nerfed pakhowi AOE dmg without giving it anything in return. Well, they did make it a 6 man again but that is meaningless as all the models are clumped up so you get no extra survivability vs indirects, and it's still horribly agile, meaning the run'n'gun unit that is chasing the pakhowi will maybe take 3 seconds longer to kill. So that was just a gimmick to make it seem "balanced". I mean, in most of my games I play double pak howi since one is just useless in 3v3s, and the time it takes them to reach vet3 through barrages/autofire is around 30 minutes. Imagine. A 3v3 game with so many units takes the pak howi so long to vet up. Again, pak howi needed an autofire accuracy nerf so that moving players would not get punished and the static ones would. Right now the static ones are not punished as much due to the lack of any sort of shell-shock from the first shell, due to hard AOE nerf.

Again, why would the balance team, which is mainly comprised of axis teamgame oriented teams, strive to balance the game when they can abuse the position and the will of the forum to ease up their game

USF indirects got nerfed because most of the balance team had a problem with them, along with some of the more prominent axis players. Sander, a purely OKW player along with Sturmpanther, a mostly axis player, gave in to these "demands" as they were going in their favour as well. There were thread after thread about CalliOP (calliope did deserve a nerf, but not in the health, but agility), or PakHowi OP. Balance team, mostly comprised of axis players, were probably delighted to see it and therefore nerfed pakhowi AOE dmg without giving it anything in return. Well, they did make it a 6 man again but that is meaningless as all the models are clumped up so you get no extra survivability vs indirects, and it's still horribly agile, meaning the run'n'gun unit that is chasing the pakhowi will maybe take 3 seconds longer to kill. So that was just a gimmick to make it seem "balanced". I mean, in most of my games I play double pak howi since one is just useless in 3v3s, and the time it takes them to reach vet3 through barrages/autofire is around 30 minutes. Imagine. A 3v3 game with so many units takes the pak howi so long to vet up. Again, pak howi needed an autofire accuracy nerf so that moving players would not get punished and the static ones would. Right now the static ones are not punished as much due to the lack of any sort of shell-shock from the first shell, due to hard AOE nerf.

Again, why would the balance team, which is mainly comprised of axis teamgame oriented teams, strive to balance the game when they can abuse the position and the will of the forum to ease up their game

I take it the Earth is flat also, chemical trails are changing the climate and vaccinations are a government conspiracy against the general populace?

with godly sight compared to any other unit available to any other faction at that time of the game.

Kübelwagen & snipers. WC51. M3 Scout Car.

tinfoil-hat conspiracy

1. It's 40%. So hp must be lower or equal to 32. Compare to hp 60(75%) on JLI.

2. I don't care whether it costs extra muni if they buff pathfinder OHK to 70%. Making scoped weapon to 1 as well? Works for me. Feel free to do so instead of buffing JLI which will only make UKF just insta quit right after seeing JLI on the battlefield.

3. Oh and don't forget the difference of the accuracy. JLI has 115%/92% accuracy on long/mid range.
Compare to 92%/57.5% Pathfinder. We should match this thing to equal as well right?

4. I almost forgt. JLI scope weapon also has 90% accuracy over covered unit(normal weapons have 50%). Meaning? They can hit wvery single shot on long range no matter the opponent is in the cover or in the building.

Damn this makes me sick again. TBH I'm surprised this thing survived so far without nerf.

I'm not saying it should cost for PathFinders but JLI should also get them for free, since you know you wanted 75% for PathFinders.

I'm not saying it should cost for PathFinders but JLI should also get them for free, since you know you wanted 75% for PathFinders.

instead of buffing JLI which will only make UKF just insta quit right after seeing JLI on the battlefield.

Maybe. I'd sooner say human nature. Nobody is purely objective. I'm not the one for conspiracies but the trend of nerfs to USF indirects speak for themselves. Either complete incompetence or just plain subjective approach to balance. Last commander update, the brits got, on paper, megabuffed. However, 90% of those "buffs" are quasi-buffs at best. Balance team is good with those pseudo-changes that give the feeling of change whilst nothing *really* happens. Don't get me wrong, same thing with some of the axis buffs. The last 2 years were nothing but running in circles when it comes to balance. For all factions

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Pioneer's vision bonus impact is simply exaggerated. The unit is overburden with number of tasks so it not very practical to be used as scouting while the number produced in early game is simply very limited due to their limited combat capabilities.

IS vet 1 ability has more impact then pioneer vision.


As for pathfinders/I&R pathfinder the units should remain at CP 0 so it easier to fit on USF build but their initial power and cost should imo go down.

Imo they should start with 4 long range rifles and have to upgrade to scoped rifles, while becoming cheaper. They should also have their XP value increased. Finally the off map could become cheaper/less powerful while locked behind tech or vet.

Imo these types of units should be support units instead of core units.

Yes, more muni spending to get a combat mediocre unit in a muni starving faction. If you waste muni on something at least you should get something decent, not 2 of those carbines.

The other option is buff scoped carbines, make them 50 munies, but put it behind officer tech. And no, they won't be better then JLIs, because models have quite bad combat stats.

pathfinder and JLI are supposedly played differently. JLI with upgrade are a dedicated marksman and its a beast in squad wipes in retreat thanks to high accuracy.

pathfinder is more of a scout unit that perform slightly better than Rear achelons.

And them you give them 2 bars and they become terminators

And them you give them 2 bars and they become terminators

Oh, so a 120 muni upgrade should make them worse in combat?

Classic " 120 ammu make X unit OP " .

Pioneer's vision bonus impact is simply exaggerated.

Pioneer's vision bonus is the core thing for WM at early game combined with mg.

Go tell WM Pioneer's vision will be removed because of it's high WR on 1v1. They will just go panic.

Pioneer's vision bonus is the core thing for WM at early game combined with mg.

Yes pioneer have good synergy with the HMG-42 and that a good design but that do not really make them an effetive scouting unit.

Go tell WM Pioneer's vision will be removed because of it's high WR on 1v1. They will just go panic.

Comment like this one add very little to the debate while increasing "us and them" mentality.

aight just saw pathfinders in game

they fucking suck, don't use more than 1 squad

instead of buffing JLI which will only make UKF just insta quit right after seeing JLI on the battlefield.

No If you wan Pathfinders with all the benefits of JLI's and non of the drawbacks, You gotta give JLI all the benefits of Pathfinders with non of the drawbacks.