Volks mp40 vs stg44 vs no update

Well someone has no idea how the game works or maybe you playing are to many 4v4's and have lost all sense of how to play.

Looks like someone doesn't even know you can play the game in any other way then mainline blob.

Looks like someone doesn't even know you can play the game in any other way then mainline blob.

So I was right you have been playing only 4v4's and have no idea how the game works. Why don't come back to the forums after you learn how to actually play the game scrub.

MP40 volks are better than people give them credit for.
In general, all the issues the volks have could be fixed by improving their vet 4 and vet 5 bonus. If they had more RA and accuracy bonus they would be on par with bet 3 ppsh cons

So I was right you have been playing only 4v4's and have no idea how the game works. Why don't come back to the forums after you learn how to actually play the game scrub.

What kind of bottom of the barrel rank level you play on to believe its not viable not to blob mainlines at all times in all situations?

What kind of bottom of the barrel rank level you play on to believe its not viable not to blob mainlines at all times in all situations?

Remember, I never said anything about blobbing. Your the one yapping about mainline blobbing, which means your the bottom of the barrel scrub who blobs mainlines and doesn't understand how the game works.
I can here a lot of personal experience from you.

if you only want to use this commander..(on open maps) I find using no upgrade early midgame to be viable on volks. They cost 25mp to reinforce which is less then rifles and sections. After midgame when there are lot of craters, upgrade to mp40s, to close in safely to other inf. They have great damage at close range.

(on forest/urban maps) use them as you would use shocks, hiding/flanking

as for the con/ppsh debate, its balanced imo cos even tho cons would win, ppsh are doctrinal and mostly in commaders with no lategame heavy. from 2v2 perspective thats quite a relief imo.

lastly on stg44.. save urself the trouble and just put down 2 schu mines.

if you only want to use this commander..(on open maps) I find using no upgrade early midgame to be viable on volks. They cost 25mp to reinforce which is less then rifles and sections. After midgame when there are lot of craters, upgrade to mp40s, to close in safely to other inf. They have great damage at close range.

That's a great tip. Thanks

Personally, I think Volks are not bad and I don't need a buff. In the early to mid game you can dominate depending on your strategy and opponent. In Endgame these are cheap capping, meat shield, snaring, protection troops for me, while P4, ISG, Tiger, Obers push back the enemies.

And as was said above. With MP40 you can often win against elite troops.

edit...
And to come back to the STG44 again. these would have to be between no update and MP40. And that's the problem in my opinion. They don't noticeably increase the DMG. Especially when it comes to long-range combat, you are now worse off. I also find the overlap with the SP very strange.

Glad to see others are being made aware of the Balance Team's lack of Balance.

I hate when UKF/USF is lumped up with SOVIETS. "Soviets have insane shit? Man screw the allies and their OP stuff"

As others have said, just a RA buff later is really all that's needed. They are pretty good meatshields, they have an insane burst window early and then fall off like a sack of bricks. If you want consistent infantry that don't have that burst window you can get fusiliers. I would like MG's to be buildable when I order a truck instead of build one so you can supplement your BO earlier but alas.

Also Kubel is dumb with micro, but I guess that's just a general light vehicle problem.

That's a great tip. Thanks

Personally, I think Volks are not bad and I don't need a buff. In the early to mid game you can dominate depending on your strategy and opponent. In Endgame these are cheap capping, meat shield, snaring, protection troops for me, while P4, ISG, Tiger, Obers push back the enemies.

And as was said above. With MP40 you can often win against elite troops.

edit...
And to come back to the STG44 again. these would have to be between no update and MP40. And that's the problem in my opinion. They don't noticeably increase the DMG. Especially when it comes to long-range combat, you are now worse off. I also find the overlap with the SP very strange.

At every range except pretty much precisely 35 (units? What even IS "1" range in terms of actual distance exactly?) the Volk STG improves the squad's DPS over a K98. You really aren't worse off with STGs over unupgraded Volks in any realistic scenario.

I hate when UKF/USF is lumped up with SOVIETS. "Soviets have insane shit? Man screw the allies and their OP stuff"

As others have said, just a RA buff later is really all that's needed. They are pretty good meatshields, they have an insane burst window early and then fall off like a sack of bricks. If you want consistent infantry that don't have that burst window you can get fusiliers. I would like MG's to be buildable when I order a truck instead of build one so you can supplement your BO earlier but alas.

Also Kubel is dumb with micro, but I guess that's just a general light vehicle problem.

But, uh, Fusiliers have pretty much the same burst window as Volks. Their G43s are individually stronger than a Volk STG at (almost) any range, and they get three as opposed to the two that Volks get. (Coupled with the addition of a whole extra model) Fusiliers honestly have a /stronger/ burst window than Volks, while also scaling better into the lategame.



Seriously, just scrap the current STG upgrade, and replace it with some sort of "reserve" upgrade to make them better anvils for the Obersoldaten Hammer. Fusiliers simply act as better Volksgrenadiers; If Volks didn't have sandbags there would genuinely be no reason to produce a Volksgrenadier squad if you could just go GOD or Breakthrough and get Fusies.

But, uh, Fusiliers have pretty much the same burst window as Volks. Their G43s are individually stronger than a Volk STG at (almost) any range, and they get three as opposed to the two that Volks get. (Coupled with the addition of a whole extra model) Fusiliers honestly have a /stronger/ burst window than Volks, while also scaling better into the lategame.


Seriously, just scrap the current STG upgrade, and replace it with some sort of "reserve" upgrade to make them better anvils for the Obersoldaten Hammer. Fusiliers simply act as better Volksgrenadiers; If Volks didn't have sandbags there would genuinely be no reason to produce a Volksgrenadier squad if you could just go GOD or Breakthrough and get Fusies.

Early game Volks are better simply because their close damage is higher and if you are assaulting more then likely you'll need to push with your sturmpios. When you get a truck out, lava grenades are incredible pressure because they deny your opponent cover. A grenade denies it for a second and they'll most likely dodge it but the ability to deny cover/punish them for approaching you is strong. Then, their STGs can be upgraded for 60 muni compared to fusiliers 90.

When I say burst window I'd argue the first 5-7 mins of the match. Once fusiliers get their G43s (90 muni per squad) they just become straight up better and better then most infantry in the game. But, you do sacrifice all that early pressure volks can provide.

You don't use CQC weapons to fight other CQC squads, you use them to walk over long range squads, team weapons, flanks.

CQC units are not balanced around fighting each other and it usually is a bad idea to make whole infantry force composed of them due to attrition in late game.

Unless they're Shock Troops because Shock Troops are BADASS.

But really I once tried to have MP 40 Stormtroopers pop Tactical Assault from cover on some Shock Troops and they still got the wipe on me. Real bastards they are, love those guys.

Unless they're Shock Troops because Shock Troops are BADASS.

But really I once tried to have MP 40 Stormtroopers pop Tactical Assault from cover on some Shock Troops and they still got the wipe on me. Real bastards they are, love those guys.

When you finally send them to reinforce: "We'll be back!!!"

Kek

Mp40 works on close range maps and if you know how to use smoke.

I think Stg44 upgrade for volks is over all better. But I believe the MP40 package gives volks more variety of grenades including smoke, so the MP40 upgrade is good for that purpose

...give Obers a tiered upgrade. You might be able to purchase them after the first truck for (for the sake of argument, not an actual suggestion of cost) 290 mp, with a reinforcement cost of, say, 30. A corresponding reduction in strength (in the form of weaker rifles? Lower RA feels like it would defeat the point) comes with this.

Then, for a 50MP upgrade, they would receive their original power level...

I like this. Name the 50mp upgrade something like "Ober Elite Training" and make it a global upgrade available from T4. That or keep the Obers at 290mp and unlock the "Elite Training" as a squad upgrade.

I like this. Name the 50mp upgrade something like "Ober Elite Training" and make it a global upgrade available from T4. That or keep the Obers at 290mp and unlock the "Elite Training" as a squad upgrade.

The best option would be for it to be a squad upgrade unlocked through regular teching, which is automatically applied to new squads (with a corresponding cost) built after the tech is unlocked.


Detailed explanation:

After the BG/Mech you can build "Soldaten" for 290 MP.

After building the Schwerer all "Soldaten" squads you have already built can be individually given the "Ober" upgrade for 50MP, to become the current "Obersoldaten".

Any squads you build after the Schwerer is down are already "Obersoldaten" and cost 340MP each, you can no longer build "Soldaten" squads.


Mostly this just simplifies some things/means you don't have to re-upgrade Obers you end up needing to rebuild in the lategame. Maybe there's an argument for doing it another way, I'd be happy to hear it. Making it a global upgrade like Bolster can cause some pricing headaches, and may make Obers too cost-effective if it is too cheap, and not cost-effective enough if it is too expensive. Same kind of issue that Bolster itself has, actually.

If "Ober" were an optional upgrade to Obersoldaten even after the tech were to unlock, it might be nice if the base "Soldaten" squad cost one/two less pop than a full Ober squad, but I'm not sure if squad population cost can actually be changed after the squad is created (Other than increasing by one per model added. Maybe there's some workaround you can do by adding an invisible, untargetable, and invincible fifth squad member who dies automatically if the other four models are lost? seems kind of hacky.)

The best option would be for it to be a squad upgrade unlocked through regular teching, which is automatically applied to new squads (with a corresponding cost) built after the tech is unlocked.


Detailed explanation:

After the BG/Mech you can build "Soldaten" for 290 MP.

After building the Schwerer all "Soldaten" squads you have already built can be individually given the "Ober" upgrade for 50MP, to become the current "Obersoldaten".

Any squads you build after the Schwerer is down are already "Obersoldaten" and cost 340MP each, you can no longer build "Soldaten" squads.


Mostly this just simplifies some things/means you don't have to re-upgrade Obers you end up needing to rebuild in the lategame. Maybe there's an argument for doing it another way, I'd be happy to hear it. Making it a global upgrade like Bolster can cause some pricing headaches, and may make Obers too cost-effective if it is too cheap, and not cost-effective enough if it is too expensive. Same kind of issue that Bolster itself has, actually.

If "Ober" were an optional upgrade to Obersoldaten even after the tech were to unlock, it might be nice if the base "Soldaten" squad cost one/two less pop than a full Ober squad, but I'm not sure if squad population cost can actually be changed after the squad is created (Other than increasing by one per model added. Maybe there's some workaround you can do by adding an invisible, untargetable, and invincible fifth squad member who dies automatically if the other four models are lost? seems kind of hacky.)

Sidenote: Having the squad be named "Soldaten" would be too bland lol. It's just the word for soldiers in german. Why not make it something silly like Untersoldaten. So that way before they're "over", they're "under" .

I've seen mods where unit upgrades can cause squads to automatically delete themselves and then return to the battlefield as another squad. So perhaps the Untersoldaten can have lower pop while their replacements have a larger pop. The only issue with that is that once they upgrade they automatically gain back all health and models, seeing as it's another squad.

EDIT: also, they have to enter from off map like a call in unit.

Sidenote: Having the squad be named "Soldaten" would be too bland lol. It's just the word for soldiers in german. Why not make it something silly like Untersoldaten. So that way before they're "over", they're "under" .

I've seen mods where unit upgrades can cause squads to automatically delete themselves and then return to the battlefield as another squad. So perhaps the Untersoldaten can have lower pop while their replacements have a larger pop. The only issue with that is that once they upgrade they automatically gain back all health and models, seeing as it's another squad.

EDIT: also, they have to enter from off map like a call in unit.

Calling them "Soldaten" was just for illustrative purposes, honestly. May as well just call them "Obersoldaten" the entire time, though changing their unit icon pre and post-upgrade would be a good idea for readability purposes.

I think the squad leaving and being replaced would be rather too strange a mechanic, especially with the issues that you've mentioned being present. What happens if the squad is upgraded after having picked up a slot weapon, for example?

I wonder if it's possible for all the models in a squad to be instantly "merged" into another "empty" squad? That'd solve some issues there... though it would mess up control groups. It's probably not worth the trouble to bother with any of this, just leave the population alone i guess.

Obersoldaten come soon enough now. The problem are Volks. Their vet5 target size is laughable. MP40 volks get 10 percent on top of their base 0,77 and even then its lower than that of Rifleman and Sections. Just give them something at vet 5, put healing on 4 and remove the bonus vision behind cover.

Obersoldaten come soon enough now. The problem are Volks. Their vet5 target size is laughable. MP40 volks get 10 percent on top of their base 0,77 and even then its lower than that of Rifleman and Sections. Just give them something at vet 5, put healing on 4 and remove the bonus vision behind cover.

I would prefer passive healing to be frontloaded to vet 1 for Mechanized builds, or outright removed and the issue of healing for OKW being fixed by making a med HQ more accessible