Change rush-walking stuka timing for 3v3/4v4

Idk man, I would agree the early stuka timing was kind of necessary in teamgames when maxim, 50cals and/or packhowitzers were still pretty OP.

But nowadays it would be justified imo to lock the stuka behind the schwerer panzer HQ. The power level (high accuracy and big onehit-kill radius on the rockets) of this unit on lane maps doesnt fit to its early timing at all and clearly is a leftover from low-income 2014 OKW design.


Buffed smoke from leigs is more than enough now to put a stop to MG spam

What if it was replaced with a mortar halftrack in Mechanized and put in Tier 4?
It would still leave OKW Mech with a counter to Maxim spam

In almost all team games both USF and UKF take either their rocket artillery doctrines or conventional artillery doctrines tho.

So i have to pick the same 1 or 2 commander(s) to do the same thing other factions can do stock. Fun gameplay and a deep tactical experience.

Also, giving rocket artillery to factions with way superior infantry will create its own problems IMO.

This is a seperate problem that limits some factions in smaller game modes. Should get adjusted too.

Bear in mind that if you rush Stuka as your first vehicle, you're leaving yourself wide open to any LV to show up or even just being walked off the field by weapons teams etc. Yes you can get rak and find even more inf waiting for you if they've read you (not hard tbh).

It's a very big risk, something I personally avoid if possible. AEC/Stuart/T-70 can kill it very easily and they'll have the fuel for those things because they have the fuel position on your part of the map. (You won't get it in the face of MGs except with a good OST...maybe, maybe not). One successful dive and you're utterly screwed for the next 10+ mins. Seen it happen.

So i have to pick the same 1 or 2 commander(s) to do the same thing other factions can do stock. Fun gameplay and a deep tactical experience.

This is also the case for basically every faction. Some doctrines are meta and just better than the others in team games such as Breakthrough for OKW (which basically gives you 0 chance to win in late game when took by multiple people).

This is a seperate problem that limits some factions in smaller game modes. Should get adjusted too.

I agree on this and this stems from the issue of game being only balanced around 1v1 and implementing different balances on different game modes being sadly impossible and this will not be fixed since the game is already 7 years old and the plug will probably be pulled soon.

Bear in mind that if you rush Stuka as your first vehicle, you're leaving yourself wide open to any LV to show up or even just being walked off the field by weapons teams etc. Yes you can get rak and find even more inf waiting for you if they've read you (not hard tbh).

It's a very big risk, something I personally avoid if possible. AEC/Stuart/T-70 can kill it very easily and they'll have the fuel for those things because they have the fuel position on your part of the map. (You won't get it in the face of MGs except with a good OST...maybe, maybe not). One successful dive and you're utterly screwed for the next 10+ mins. Seen it happen.

As I've mentioned it, this risk gets very minimized in 3v3/4v4. light tanks are very valnaurable to snares & mines. Just one hit from it will make Allies loose LT for nothing It's very hard to find bypass route without detected in 3v3/4v4, so it requires catching enemy at 100% off guard to catch walking stuka. Especially when they tend to nest in the base except for the time they are shooting.

It can be happened, but very not likely.(Also note that they need to hit 2+ shots to kill walking stuka)

As I've mentioned it, this risk gets very minimized in 3v3/4v4. light tanks are very valnaurable to snares & mines. Just one hit from it will make Allies loose LT for nothing It's very hard to find bypass route without detected in 3v3/4v4, so it requires catching enemy at 100% off guard to catch walking stuka. Especially when they tend to nest in the base except for the time they are shooting.

It can be happened, but very not likely.(Also note that they need to hit 2+ shots to kill walking stuka)

2 shots for a fast firing, very fast moving light vehicle is nothing. Esp with their low cost.

If they are spending so much on mines in the early phase of the game your inf will walk over them with weapon upgrades and the mines are easily countered with a single sweeper. All Allied factions have access to engineer squad at minute 0 now. Realistically they will have 1 maybe 2 mines in predictable routes. In this phase of the game it is virtually impossible to have all approaches sealed off against a LV dive, except maybe ultra urban/Redball. Or more likely, your forces are huddled around a single AT gun trying to fend off that LV (esp T-70!) while they swamp you with inf and weapons teams + LV in combined arms. Only after the map control has stabilised and ppl dug in does it usually become more difficult to find such a route.

I've seen ppl do a dive straight down the middle on a retreating stuka on Lienne and still get it. Easily worth the suicide dive cost. A puma or even a Luchs would have swiss cheesed the thing or at the very least given them real fear. Vet I puma would give free kill.

Most broken shit in team games

It should be locked behind the panzer schwerer headquarters. It still should require mech truck to build, but it should not be able to be built until you build the flak truck because it makes its timing more similar to other rocket arty in the game.

As of right now, the stuka can come out with just 160 fuel investment (15 for truck, 45 for mech truck setup, 100 for stuka). This means you can be dealing with an extremely early stuka around the time a soviet player would be trying to get a t-70 out.

Even if you build both mech and battlegroup it's still just like 55 additional fuel to fully upgrade battlegroup. Locking it behing the Schwerer would lead to the timing being much more balanced and it makes no sense for it to come out that early anyways, even in 1v1 or 2v2. Since you're going to build the Schwerer no matter what for teching, just locking it behind it being built and the investment for building it makes this a very simple decision. The only con is OKW won't get to rush it out before 10min anymore.

I don't think rushing rocket arty should be a viable strategy for any faction honestly, it should be solely a late game thing. Locking it behind the schwerer causes an additional 105 fuel to be spent to unlock the Stuka.

WARNING: I know this is very debatable topic.
And I do believe OKW needs some buff on late-game volks(with possibly buff on 4-5 vet maybe) to compensate it's low WR in 1v1, but I just wanted to give it a shot.

Despite low WR of OKW in 1v1, it is still dominating faction in 3v3/4v4.
So this suggestion is to minimize impact on OKW in 1v1/2v2, yet somehow make it weak in 3v3/4v4 (or at least delay it's timing).


(https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1614556800/4v4/wermacht?statsSource=top200)
(We will see how Apr. stat is in one or two days after)

My suggestion is make walking stuka locked behind tier3 (with or w/o tier3 upgrade is debatable) but buildable in tier2. Which gives rush-walking stuka about 3~5 min. delay from current timing.

This won't hurt in 1v1 or 2v2 because... Well, because no body rushes to go walking stuka. And when they do need it, you probably already have tier3. It's just too risky to spend first 100 fuel on arty unit.

But this changes in 3v3 or 4v4. The risk gets very minimum with help of allies / how game goes (line battle). There is very little chance of loosing first walking stuka in mid game. At the time Allies only have at best stuart / AEC / t70.

Walking stuka is the fastest rocket arty that arrives in battle and deals dmg to the line (at around 8~11 min).
All other non-doctrin arty is locked behind final tier, and only thing comes at best similar time is land mattress (sucks hell).

Recently I have not gone for the 3v3 or 4v4, mostly focusing on 1v1 but I have seen many players (especially when they are at AT), at least one player goes for early stuka & rest tiers up for the tank. It makes Allies bleed mp without plausible counter at the moment(again, 8~11 min.).

Any feedback is welcomed.

I don't think they will make something like this because they need to fill the gap in T2 and since they won't add new units to the game I don't know how this will work.

Edit: Also early walking Stuka is so vulnerable to dives and it delay your tech and tanks too.

I would be fine with the Stuka being moved into the Schwerer Panzer HQ and it not requiring Panzer Authorization. The JP4 could be place in the Mechanized structure and not get unlocked until you get Panzer Authorization. I would have to test these timings but it could maybe make team games feel a bit better.

Idk about shoving the Stuka back. Okw will be eaten alive by the pak howi with no manner of counter.

The only way to truly put stuka in tier 4 without breaking anything is another tech rework that changes BTG HQ into a cheaper and mandatory tech tier containing all OKW weapon teams and the owl, and Mechanized as second mandatory tier with flak ht, luchs and puma. This also requires altering OKW starting fuel.

The mod team won't bother with another rework so it's pointless

Idk about shoving the Stuka back. Okw will be eaten alive by the pak howi with no manner of counter.

I think you are right to a degree, but they have their version of the pak, just have to get a tad closer. Definitely not something impossible to do.

I think you are right to a degree, but they have their version of the pak, just have to get a tad closer. Definitely not something impossible to do.

Leig is miles worse than the pak howi though. It's not a duel okw will win

Leig is miles worse than the pak howi though. It's not a duel okw will win

Its also cheaper, and Pack lost a ton of power. Shoot n scoot works great vs both, dont stand still and full barrage.

Leig is miles worse than the pak howi though. It's not a duel okw will win

Depends on what you're looking for. Pak lost a lot of hitting power with the last update, nowhere near as damaging as it used to be. Leig is much more consistent and cheaper. Also, I'm not quite sure who would win. Leig bombarding pak or pak bombarding leig on close to max range/FOW.

Also, Leig has 1 RA, while pak has 1.25. So if you catch the pak, it's gone, even from the basic infantry. The extra man it got means s***. It's only beneficial vs small AOE indirects (mortar, somewhat Leig).

Exactly, the Leig may not be as good, but it can get the job done just fine. It will put up a better fight than a mortar too. Even before the Pak nerf, I've faced plenty of people that have had success against me.

I have no idea why people debate about it. Stuka timing in team games is simply op. Shit arguments about stuart/t70 dive just make me laugh.
Make it doctrinal and replace it with mortar halftruck
or at least change stuka vetereancy :
vet0 stuka should have only flame barrage so in early game cant wipe full health units, vet1or2 unlocks normal barrage and add supress to flame barrage(like current vet1 flame barrage)

Zero scatter line rocket arty = easy to predict where it will land, its not necessarily a good thing, its very expensive for what it does.

It's harder to predict than the werfer, werfer fires, you know the area, stuka fires, if you pick the wrong direction/retreat into the line, you're fucked.

Straight line only makes it easy to predict after the second rocket, but by then, it's too late for anything in the rockets path.

It comes too early, end of.

How is it debateable? In team games it can hit the field too early, some situations you can't dodge it for the HUGE impact it delivers, the maps REALLY play to its strengths and it can be very easily protected (also maps).

Not the stuka but something needs changed. In low level (army ranks 10-12) it offers too much control vs the risks of manoucreing into position to dive it.

Personally I wait from 1 barrage to when I think they will barrage next and if possible try to dive/pressure it then, but this isnt always the case and its not because i can't find the angle, its just not possible when its protected by 2/3/4 players armies and bases. This is the problem to me, not the devastating unit itself.