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Encirclement doctrine

9 Apr 2021, 21:46 PM
#1
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Why this doctrine hasn't been proposed with modification? Is the balance team planning to do something with it in the next version of the patch?

I know at high level the doctrine doesn't seem much but at low level on 4vs4 its just really problematic. The answer to it can't be just -don't play random, everyone plays how he want and deserve balance and fairness even more at low level when they're learning the game. The doctrine is killing the fun for a lot of people and I think it deserves to be modified into something less OP at low level.

Not everyone knows every doctrine, not everyone knows how to counter it and not everyone is skilled enough to prevent it during all the game long, remember it requires hundreds of hours of play to assimilate all mechanisms.
If you don't pay enough attention for a short while that's instant victory for the opposite team in most of the cases.
9 Apr 2021, 23:21 PM
#2
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2021, 21:46 PMEsxile
Why this doctrine hasn't been proposed with modification? Is the balance team planning to do something with it in the next version of the patch?


Quoting commander rewamp patch note:

Breakthrough

To encourage the use of this ability which requires fuel, a reload bonus is being added to allow vehicles to make an aggressive push.

-Now provides a +15% reload bonus when active

xD
9 Apr 2021, 23:41 PM
#3
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

And what could be done with it? The whole point of this commander is a memology of Close the pocket. Aside from it, commander has no value what so ever.

If anything it needs full scapping and turning it into something different, other then that it falls into the same category with CAS commander.
9 Apr 2021, 23:43 PM
#4
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Could require break supply line stuka to require line of sight.

Then there's no decap abilities left that don't require a setup in this doc.
10 Apr 2021, 05:51 AM
#5
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Encirclement doctrine actually works? Consider me impressed. I assumed it would be ridiculously difficult to actually pull off a complete cutoff behind enemy lines and hold it long enough to make a difference.
10 Apr 2021, 06:59 AM
#6
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Well Dude this is Ultimate meme commander. You are CoH2 child and many things seem unruly. But Eventually you'll grow out of it and get over it.
10 Apr 2021, 09:43 AM
#7
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Could require break supply line stuka to require line of sight.

Then there's no decap abilities left that don't require a setup in this doc.


The problem is not the way to do it but the result. To keep the commander balanced there is a necessity to make it works but the result is problematic. I don't think there is anymore a good reason for rewarding cutting off your opponent annihilation of everything catch on those territories.
In fact cutting off your opponent is a classic mechanism in the game but it shouldn't be give such reward even for a heavy munition cost.
10 Apr 2021, 09:46 AM
#8
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

Encirclement doctrine actually works? Consider me impressed. I assumed it would be ridiculously difficult to actually pull off a complete cutoff behind enemy lines and hold it long enough to make a difference.


Indeed it works, especially on maps like red or white ball where you have to cut off only two points, and those points are generally a safe distance behind the frontline. I always pick encirclement over the elephant on those maps.
Even if I don't manage to pull it off I can still enjoy using one of the sneakiest doctrines in the game, ambush camo for defensive play and sprinting stormtroopers to get behind their weapon teams.
The breakthrough ability also saved by bacon before, putting a vehicle on a victory point to stop its capture. I also figured out that it doesn't work with stolen vehicles.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2021, 09:43 AMEsxile
The problem is not the way to do it but the result. To keep the commander balanced there is a necessity to make it works but the result is problematic. I don't think there is anymore a good reason for rewarding cutting off your opponent annihilation of everything catch on those territories.
In fact cutting off your opponent is a classic mechanism in the game but it shouldn't be give such reward even for a heavy munition cost.


I have experinced multiple CTPs from allied perspective too and in my experience if you start pulling out immediately, I mean as soon as you realize you can't stop the ctp from happening, then you can save your army generally unscratched, the exception being static defences.
Pip
10 Apr 2021, 17:49 PM
#9
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594


Indeed it works, especially on maps like red or white ball where you have to cut off only two points, and those points are generally a safe distance behind the frontline. I always pick encirclement over the elephant on those maps.


Both those points would generally have Caches placed on them though, surely? I'd have thought that would provide enough of a buffer to allow you to react and prevent a massive cutoff manoeuvre from succeeding, though I haven't really seen it all in action.

I haven't actually tested it; Does the Stuka Divebomb both destroy a cache and decap the point underneath unsupported?
10 Apr 2021, 18:20 PM
#10
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Apr 2021, 17:49 PMPip


Both those points would generally have Caches placed on them though, surely? I'd have thought that would provide enough of a buffer to allow you to react and prevent a massive cutoff manoeuvre from succeeding, though I haven't really seen it all in action.

I haven't actually tested it; Does the Stuka Divebomb both destroy a cache and decap the point underneath unsupported?


Well, both of those maps happen to have buildings nearby to spawn stormtroopers from. If no one notices them coming out then you can hide them to wait for the schreck upgrade. The schreck + flame nade destroys a chache fairly quickly (90 muni, ~14 secs). A flame nade + the mp40s firing can be enough too (30 muni, ~23 secs), tho this gives them a longer opportunity to react.
You can also use the storm's smoke nade to keep them on the cut off points as long as possible,for the longest ctp active time (max 45 secs).

As for the stuka bombing it can only damage a chache but can't destroy it at full health, it does like 1/5 damage to it. However there were cases when the chache was so damaged, that the stuka both took it and neutralized the point (and iirc those are also the times when ctp tends to act weird, either not activating at all, or even attacking neutral territories).
Fun fact: the actual stuka bombing (200 muni) does 4/5 damage to chaches!

There are plenty of ways to defends against storms, apart from building chaches. Destroying or wiring off the buildings they can spawn from is one of them. Storms also hate mines cuz they can't see them, this can also help against vehicles diving in with breakthrough. USF can build firing positions to look over cut off points. Another good strategy is that if you deploy a AA HT against planes, then put it next to a cut off point, generally it can still do its job while also protecting the point.
There are two other ways which I think can be effective, but haven't seen being used. One of them is putting a scout vehicle around the cut off points (M3, M20, UC), I mean they are generally cheap and have a low population value and they can detect storms from a fair distance away.
Another way that may work is deploying a vet3 major (it's not hard to get them to vet3, just bring them along with your combat units), they can completely prevent a point from being captured, not even the stuka can neutralize it (just tested, it's ridiculous)!
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