Commander Update Beta 2021 - Soviet Feedback

Ostheer mortar
Ostheer mortar halftrack
OKW Leig

These non-heavy fuel investments artys stand NO CHANCE against 120mm. You have to rush werfer or stuka (or even lock yourself into a doctrine with LeFH (easily counterable with offmaps)) and even then, the thing can escape with *1 MAN ALIVE* in a 6-men crew. Can even self spot...

I propose that 120mm costs fuel, make it a serious investment because right now its a no brainer to go 2x120mm on certain heavily favoured maps. You wanna have arty supremacy or wanna rush crutch T70? But not both, it even comes in VERY VERY good doctrines with shocks, DshKs, or guards, come on.

just move your indirect once the barrage begins. the barrage time between shots is pretty dang long.

all 3 of those can just move out of the way, 1 wont even take bleed if hit, just repair time.

Ahh the classic ¨just move¨, yes I thought about it thanks. Not enough

Ahh the classic ¨just move¨, yes I thought about it thanks. Not enough

Can I get wheels on the Mortar Pit? or a fuel cost on all that indirect?

Brings Mortar Pit to the topic, lel this dude man

Brings Mortar Pit in the topic, lel this dude man

Some indirect counters other indirect. Its fine, we don't add fuel costs to deal with that. Fuel costs are for controlling vehicle count and the associated mobility premium of said vehicles. Exception is tech and towed artillery, which allows cheaper tanks due to upfront teching costs. None of those are related to the 120mm. Just move.

No wonder why 2x Soviet is actually the strongest combo in the game, axis included, unless these problems are correctly addressed.

Ahh the classic ¨just move¨, yes I thought about it thanks. Not enough

I'm guessing the molitov is OP too because the long wind up and damage over time is much to difficult to cope with since moving is not an option eh?
If the enemy is barraging, move out of the barrage. If you don't like that option perhaps a game like this isn't for you?
When the enemy AT guns shoot at your tanks its also advised to move.
And when you see red smoke, odds are you will want to move..
Hell now that I think about it a lot of this game is about moving your units so you better buckle up and learn how it works!

I'm guessing the molitov is OP too because the long wind up and damage over time is much to difficult to cope with since moving is not an option eh?
If the enemy is barraging, move out of the barrage. If you don't like that option perhaps a game like this isn't for you?
When the enemy AT guns shoot at your tanks its also advised to move.
And when you see red smoke, odds are you will want to move..
Hell now that I think about it a lot of this game is about moving your units so you better buckle up and learn how it works!

I will be glad to show how this game works in automatch #Pray

No wonder why 2x Soviet is actually the strongest combo in the game, axis included, unless these problems are correctly addressed.

Stats dont proove it.
https://coh2stats.com/stats/daily/1617494400/2v2/wermacht?statsSource=all

No wonder why 2x Soviet is actually the strongest combo in the game, axis included, unless these problems are correctly addressed.

based on what exactly? Just wondering.

This is why this forum sucks a lot of times because mods just let salty wehraboos come in to dump their rants and ask for nerfs. No one is doing that shit in the axis threads, dont bring that garbage here.

Literally just move, thats it thats the whole strategy against indirect fire, just move. The reason CB was taken off lefh was because even after you moved the gun would track you a lot of times and still hit you miles away from where you were when you barraged.

I will be glad to show how this game works in automatch #Pray

You are more than welcome to. Auto match is a great way to find people of your level, granted moving your units is one of the most basic principles of the game so I'm not certain how a match where neither player leaves their base sector will play out, what with such a basic skill lacking.

This is a post regarding popular Soviet Doctrines and how the balance patch is changing them for the state of 1v1. The 7 relevant and most popular Soviet Doctrines for 1v1 are roughly in this order.

Guard Motor Coordination Tactics
Airbourne Troops
Guard Rifle Combined Arms
Shock Rifle Frontline
Lend Lease
Armored Assault
Counter Attack Tactics

Now, lets go through them one by one.
Guard Motor Coordination Tactics - The most boring doctrine of all time. Solid Elite Infantry, Solid Elite Armor, Solid abilities, + 1 meme Mortar. Not being touched in anyway despite being incredibly popular.

Airbourne Troops - Incredibly obnoxious with overtuned SVT's that are getting slightly nerfed, IL2 Rocket Run getting gutted vs heavier vehicles. Sure, this doctrine is annoying and probably warrants a nerf. I'd like to see SVT's redesigned entirely but we can work with what we've got.

Guard Rifle Combined Arms - KV1 getting neutered (rightfully so) and for some inexplicable reason it's losing it's loiter for the garbage AI strafe. Seems bad now since PPSH Cons still feel incredibly weak, and the ML20 is a meme. imo objectively worse than GMCT now since the KV carried this doctrine hard.

Shock Rifle - Untouched, but it's about to be heavily invalidated by Soviet Shock due to the 85 > KV8 and Incendiary Artillery Barrage being trash. (I wholeheartedly recommend a buff for it in some form.)

Lend Lease - Being absolutely gutted horribly. Assault Guards change is a buff but ultimately whatever, but losing the ability to expend excess Munitions for Fuel in "Allied Supply Drop" for a 200 MP Opel Blitz is unusable due to how hard you bleed Manpower as the Soviets, the triple heavy Manpower doctrine abilities (Ass Guards, Opel Blitz, DShK.) and how impossible Opel Blitz are to keep alive against competent players, and if the M4C Sherman is getting the same reload nerf that the 76mm Sherman is getting (Which I think it is since they're the same tank unless I'm mistaken?) then it's probably not worth using over 85's or KV1's. This doctrine has nothing worthwhile now in theory since there's a better way to get DShk's too. (Airbourne)

Armored Assault - Great doctrine, minor flaw in no elite infantry but that's okay because Radio Intercept is crazy good, isn't being touched, minor buff to IS2. Outlier here. Please don't nerf.

Counter Attack Tactics - Like Shock Rifle, this doctrine seems even closer to just being a worse version of Soviet Shock now. Explaining more here. Obviously both doctrines have Shocks, but the choice between KV1 and 85 is personal preference, both doctrine share recon overflight. 152mm Howizer Barrage is amazing for dealing with/displacing AT Guns and when combined with the 85 which is fast and trades up vs both P4's that is quite strong (Not that that is inherently a bad thing) and the direct doctrine competition there is the... B4. hm. These are just the same doctrine but with a difference of a meme cannon vs a usable ability right now.

---

The point I'm trying to make here is that the only 2 Doctrines safe from this patch are Guard Motor Coordination Tactics (The most popular but boring Soviet Doctrine by far) and Armored Assault. Everything else has been nerfed heavily or invalidated by Soviet Shock being buffed through the roof. I'm not quite sure I like the direction this is going since we're nerfing everything that dares to compare to GMCT which is probably going to lead into a somewhat stale meta instead of the interesting somewhat diverse doctrine choices we have right now. Even the tier 2 options can peak their way into play with Urban Defense and Defensive Community having merit.

Particularly Lend Lease is incredibly fun and it's getting absolutely dicked out of nowhere, I'd like to see Allied Supply drop stay which will help keep the doctrine relevant and drop pressure off it's heavy Manpower expenditure back into Munitions. I don't see a reason that the IL2 Rocket Strafe needs to be neutered when the whole problem with that doctrine is SVT's being way too good. The AI strafe in Guard Rifle is infinitely worse than Mark Vehicle or the loiter and it's supporting abilities are also worse (ML20 and PPSH Cons) so I don't see a reason to swap that out. And finally I think Soviet Shock needs to lose it's Recon Run and GMCT needs to lose it's Vehicle Crew Repairs for less impactful abilities. Both these doctrines are just way too efficient both in practice for GMCT and in theory for Soviet Shock that it's going to be very difficult to pick a Shock or Guards doctrine other than these two with the current state of balance patch changes.

...Incendiary Artillery Barrage being trash. (I wholeheartedly recommend a buff for it in some form.)
...

Incendiary barrage kills paks with noway to avoid and actually need a nerf not a buff.

...
And finally I think Soviet Shock needs to lose it's Recon Run
...

Sock does not have recon

https://www.coh2.org/topic/108342/commander-patch-2021-line-up

Incendiary barrage kills paks with noway to avoid and actually need a nerf not a buff.

Try moving.

Sock does not have recon

https://www.coh2.org/topic/108342/commander-patch-2021-line-up

Soviet Shock Army Tactics

ML-20 Howitzer replaced with T-34/85
IL-2 Sturmovik Attack replaced with 152mm Howitzer Strike
Conscript Assault Package replaced with IL-2 Recon Run

???

Try moving.

I suggest you test moving and see what happens.

Soviet Shock Army Tactics

ML-20 Howitzer replaced with T-34/85
IL-2 Sturmovik Attack replaced with 152mm Howitzer Strike
Conscript Assault Package replaced with IL-2 Recon Run

???

"Shock Army

IL-2 Recon Run replaced with Armored Vehicle Detection"

I agree about the doctrines that I don't comment, but here are the things I want to remark:

Guard Motor Coordination Tactics - The most boring doctrine of all time. Solid Elite Infantry, Solid Elite Armor, Solid abilities, + 1 meme Mortar. Not being touched in anyway despite being incredibly popular.

This commander will be even more useful because of the buff to the RoF of the 120mm barrage ability and the replacement of its Vet1 ability. I don't think it will be a meme mortar after this patch.

Shock Rifle - Untouched, but it's about to be heavily invalidated by Soviet Shock due to the 85 > KV8 and Incendiary Artillery Barrage being trash. (I wholeheartedly recommend a buff for it in some form.)

I don't thing incendiary is trash, but yeah the commander is less attractive than similar ones. The ATG Ambush could be exchanged for something more interesting or maybe just expanded to the stronger Tank hunter Ambush ability. IS-2 could need a little buff on top.

Lend Lease - Being absolutely gutted horribly. Assault Guards change is a buff but ultimately whatever, but losing the ability to expend excess Munitions for Fuel in "Allied Supply Drop" for a 200 MP Opel Blitz is unusable due to how hard you bleed Manpower as the Soviets, the triple heavy Manpower doctrine abilities (Ass Guards, Opel Blitz, DShK.) and how impossible Opel Blitz are to keep alive against competent players, and if the M4C Sherman is getting the same reload nerf that the 76mm Sherman is getting (Which I think it is since they're the same tank unless I'm mistaken?) then it's probably not worth using over 85's or KV1's. This doctrine has nothing worthwhile now in theory since there's a better way to get DShk's too. (Airbourne)

I can see this Commander at 3vs3/4vs4, a gamemode where allies are really struggling. The fuel drop was a meme there because it got always shot down, so I do think exchanging it for the Supply truck was a good move. Super Bazookas are a nice addition for 3v3/4vs4 too. But I agree about the RoF nerf to 76mm, which makes it even more less potent than the strong T34/85. Vs tanks with high armor it still can use its HVAP shells without loosing efficiency, but the nerf to standard shells obviously made it worse vs low armored vehicles/tanks and infantry. 76mm needs an AOE buff to its standard shells for a partly compensation.

2 suggestions,
Bren LMG for Assault guards.
Convert Muni to Fuel ability for Lends Lease instead of Zis truck, you can't give this allies. I t only converts your own muni to fuel.

I want to suggest changes for 2 commanders,

Advanced warfare:
change the IL2 strafe to IL2 AT loiter(Basically the USF p47 loiter)
why: too many commanders now have IL2 strafe, and this is just an inferior version of Armoured Assault. This will give it something extra.


Soviet Reserve army:
Change the Conscript Assault package to airdrop weapons or make a new upgrade package that affects all infantry units(combat engies, cons, penal) e.g. ppsh for cons, svt for engies and smoke+nade replacing satchel for penals.