Commander Update Beta 2021 - Ostheer Feedback

So I've messed with bunkers a bit and found out that double upgraded bunker has a sight of nearly 85. Both command and med upgrades add the same amount around +70% of sight from initial value of 35. 35 + 0.70*35+0.70*35 is 84. The fix is just remove the sight bonus from either upgrades, or make the sight range bonus mutually exclusive. It should not be this way, since balance team added the double upgrade possibility in the recent patch.

It might be a bug and should be reported to accordingly, but it might be a feature as well. I will wait couple of days for reaction and make a post if none comes.

Very nice find. I assume it is just an oversight.

Very nice find. I assume it is just an oversight.

I wish it was xD Read edited comment.

2 ideas that I can give to replace abilities here are the Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers, which could potentially go in Joint Operations since it makes sense thematically to me at least, and maybe a 251 Repair and Recovery Halftrack from the All Units mod, even has animations and everything.

Another idea is an Advanced Panzergrenadier training upgrade that I had that gives the ability to PGs to repair vehicles, build tank traps/caches and so forth but yeah.

https://youtu.be/-AF0mefa2HA

Unfathomably based

I'm quite certain not a single person who has ever valued or was concerned about any kind of balance would like to add them.

Because it's impossible for the community team to balance them before putting them in the game.

Also what do you care exactly, you don't even play the game. Do you even have it installed?

https://youtu.be/-AF0mefa2HA

Unfathomably based

See above.

https://youtu.be/-AF0mefa2HA

Unfathomably based

That clip is from when flamethrowers caused a death crit. Using a clip with updated mechanics from this decade would do better to illustrate how they would perform in live.

Uraban Assault PG's could work. They'll just be slightly stronger version of Assault engineer.
Maybe their stg's could have their damage dropped from 5 to 4 which would make the dps go from 15.5 to 13.4 (0-5) which is around the same value(13.8 @ 0-10) as Assault Engineers. But with 0.8 RA instead of 0.9 of Ass Engies.

Because it's impossible for the community team to balance them before putting them in the game.

Also what do you care exactly, you don't even play the game. Do you even have it installed?



See above.

What do you expect the Assault PG to be ?

5 man PG or 4 man squad.
Deployed with flamer or they have to buy it. Double flamethrower or something else.
Do they buy armor or not.
Satchel charges with smoke.
STG44 or Mp40.

Because it's impossible for the community team to balance them before putting them in the game.

Also what do you care exactly, you don't even play the game. Do you even have it installed?



See above.

lmao well Im just some scrub but I thought the ideas were good. Just like everything else in this game would just need tuning

--

Also again I am a noob so maybe the increased price of stuka cas is justified. But this ability seems a good amount stronger against vehicles than it is against infantry. From my experiences using it

What do you expect the Assault PG to be ?

5 man PG or 4 man squad.
Deployed with flamer or they have to buy it. Double flamethrower or something else.
Do they buy armor or not.
Satchel charges with smoke.
STG44 or Mp40.

I imagine a 5 man squad, similar to the Assault Grenadiers, but armed with StG44s instead.

And yes I'd also think having the option to upgrade with Armor and Single/Double flamethowers would be nice but that'd be dependent on what would be most balanced and so forth.

Maybe they could have a 3rd utility upgrade of some sort that allows them to for example repair vehicles and plant demolition satchels like the British Sappers to remove cover and obstacles? Or your smoke and charges idea.

Could work.

The Strategic Reserves Doctrine has become TOO packed imo, especially after getting Riegel mines

I imagine a 5 man squad, similar to the Assault Grenadiers, but armed with StG44s instead.

And yes I'd also think having the option to upgrade with Armor and Single/Double flamethowers would be nice but that'd be dependent on what would be most balanced and so forth.

Maybe they could have a 3rd utility upgrade of some sort that allows them to for example repair vehicles and plant demolition satchels like the British Sappers to remove cover and obstacles? Or your smoke and charges idea.

Could work.

What i said are not my ideas, it's how the unit is. Seeing that you want the "whole package", let me explain you why it wouldn't work.


If a 2x flamethrower unit is gonna exist it's gonna have to be RET levels of weak with absolutely no extra utility mixed in it. Maybe a satchel charge but the unit would had to be Pio levels of RA and Mp40 Pio levels as opposed to PG STG.

If you want a single flamethrower, it could have slightly stronger models (PG ones with STG) but again, no utility whatsoever and 4 models. Any other combination of utility, flamer and BALANCED requires them to be Pioneers.

The 1x/2x flamer is a dead end however you look at it. Same with implementing an armor upgrade if you want a unit as strong as vanilla model PG.



At the end of the day i think you are forgetting about either Breakthrough equipment and Support package.

Pios can get access to satchel charge, 5 man squad or destroy cover.
PG can get access to repair, improved performance near vehicles, mark infantry or smoke grenades.

The only "unique" thing available to be seen is probable a 5 man PG squad with destroy cover, smoke and probable an incendiary grenade. Probable limited to a single squad. Maybe a BP3 upgrade which replaces the incendiary grenade for a satchel and provides 0.25 armor (similar to RoE Anvil upgrade) for scaling and keeping the theme.

What i said are not my ideas, it's how the unit is. Seeing that you want the "whole package", let me explain you why it wouldn't work.


If a 2x flamethrower unit is gonna exist it's gonna have to be RET levels of weak with absolutely no extra utility mixed in it. Maybe a satchel charge but the unit would had to be Pio levels of RA and Mp40 Pio levels as opposed to PG STG.

If you want a single flamethrower, it could have slightly stronger models (PG ones with STG) but again, no utility whatsoever and 4 models. Any other combination of utility, flamer and BALANCED requires them to be Pioneers.

The 1x/2x flamer is a dead end however you look at it. Same with implementing an armor upgrade if you want a unit as strong as vanilla model PG.



At the end of the day i think you are forgetting about either Breakthrough equipment and Support package.

Pios can get access to satchel charge, 5 man squad or destroy cover.
PG can get access to repair, improved performance near vehicles, mark infantry or smoke grenades.

The only "unique" thing available to be seen is probable a 5 man PG squad with destroy cover, smoke and probable an incendiary grenade. Probable limited to a single squad. Maybe a BP3 upgrade which replaces the incendiary grenade for a satchel and provides 0.25 armor (similar to RoE Anvil upgrade) for scaling and keeping the theme.

Uhm, okay I guess?

I mean I don't see why you'd have to limit them to only 1 when there's things like Shock troops that aren't limited to just 1 but alright, I haven't used them ever but I liked the concept of a more anti-infantry specialized PG squad with maybe some small utility and armor.

I haven't used them ever

Well that shows. It's basically the equivalent of Tiger Ace release levels of OP.

Uhm, okay I guess?

I mean I don't see why you'd have to limit them to only 1 when there's things like Shock troops that aren't limited to just 1 but alright, I haven't used them ever but I liked the concept of a more anti-infantry specialized PG squad with maybe some small utility and armor.

Because if they are not limited to 1 and they are as strong as suggesting them to be, 5 man PG with bonuses on top, they would had to be prohibitively expensive.
PG are already 340(?) so you are at looking at a "normal" value of at least 400mp. You could balance it at 360mp by making them a single squad, arriving at 3 CP (i think same as Jaeger squad) and them not having a bundle nade.

Comparison to Shocks:
Armor is just a fancy way of using RA which is slightly worse when similar values are accounted for.
Basically 1.5 armor is equivalent to 0.66 RA.

Uhm, okay I guess?

I mean I don't see why you'd have to limit them to only 1 when there's things like Shock troops that aren't limited to just 1 but alright, I haven't used them ever but I liked the concept of a more anti-infantry specialized PG squad with maybe some small utility and armor.

Hmm, which could be stronger I wonder. Shock troops or a 5 man PG squad with two flamers and utility. Its a mystery.

Because it's impossible for the community team to balance them before putting them in the game.

I'm sorry, I have no other way to ask that - are you that stupid or that naive to believe there is any way to balance 5 man dual flamer unit?

There is a reason why every single unused concept unit outside of this one, T34/85 ace(red banner dual T34/85 call-in) and T34 osttruppen(shit tier T34/76 that's more spammable then T-70, you can see it in ToW) made it to the game.

These three go completely against what CoH2 is/tries to be for last 4 years.

Well that shows. It's basically the equivalent of Tiger Ace release levels of OP.



Because if they are not limited to 1 and they are as strong as suggesting them to be, 5 man PG with bonuses on top, they would had to be prohibitively expensive.
PG are already 340(?) so you are at looking at a "normal" value of at least 400mp. You could balance it at 360mp by making them a single squad, arriving at 3 CP (i think same as Jaeger squad) and them not having a bundle nade.

Comparison to Shocks:
Armor is just a fancy way of using RA which is slightly worse when similar values are accounted for.
Basically 1.5 armor is equivalent to 0.66 RA.

Dude, calm down for Christ's sake.

They're a scrapped unit which probably 90% of the community doesn't even know of and an even bigger percentage hasn't ever tried out and there's been years of patches since any videos of their commander being tried out.

And yeah them being the equivalent price of Obers sounds reasonable like I said, whatever makes them balanced.

Hmm, which could be stronger I wonder. Shock troops or a 5 man PG squad with two flamers and utility. Its a mystery.

Thank you for your input troll #2 but I already said that they should be made in a way that's balanced, which includes removing the flamethrowers from them.

I'm sorry, I have no other way to ask that - are you that stupid or that naive to believe there is any way to balance 5 man dual flamer unit?

There is a reason why every single unused concept unit outside of this one, T34/85 ace(red banner dual T34/85 call-in) and T34 osttruppen(shit tier T34/76 that's more spammable then T-70, you can see it in ToW) made it to the game.

These three go completely against what CoH2 is/tries to be for last 4 years.

I understand that you don't play the game and everything and you only come out of your hole to troll every day but even I would expect you to have the common capabilities of reading and comprehending the English language and if so you would have known by now that I said what I already repeated to the other fellows before.

Now if you would excuse me I have better things to do than argue with someone living in his mother's basement and pretending like he's on a life long vacation from work.

After the change to G43 Grenadiers Elite Troops Doctrine Stun grenade is redundant. It should be changed into something that first the doctrine better, like a command P4

Since UKF now get doctrinal riflemen even though they are a defensive faction with strong Tanks and a 60 range TD, Can we see doctrinal riflemen for OST too despite beeing defensive with good tanks but without 60 range TD.

I think It's time to make VSL 0 cp.

I think It's time to make VSL 0 cp.

even its 0 cp I would pick lmg over it 100% of the time its like making flares from command pather 0 cp