Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

Hmmm, I was expecting the Pershing to get the self-repair ability treatment, the same as the WC51, but I guess not.

Imo the patch should include the following changes

Pathfinder
increase XP value possibly change carbines weapon profile to be far oriented

Reasons:
XP value is simply too low.
Carbines should help them fight long range not close range

Paratroopers
Increase cooldown on suppression fire possibly more to vet 1

Reasons:
CD is simply too low

M10
increase base turret rotation and adjust vet bonus

Reasons:
turret rotation to slow at vet 0

Dozer
Make the unit build-able instead of call-in

Reasons:
consistency there is little reason for the unit to be a call-in

TOT

Move TOT to another commander

Reasons:
The ability is one of the most cost efficient counter to structures. It makes the combination of the off map/Priest to strong and the commander to popular in large modes. By moving to another commander the number of meta USF commanders will be increased.

I do wish we would see more buffs to some of the US doctrinal stuff. Others have mentioned stuff like the Pershing getting self repair or the Greyhound getting a faster timing. I think stuff like that should at be tested instead of just not ever being implemented.

On top of that the complete lack of swapping any abilities on US is really disappointing to see. Rifle company in particular just needs a commander ability swap because it still really crutches on the E8 to have anything worthwhile and the changes to the E8 don’t inspire much hope of it being so strong it can carry the commander. A Halftrack would be such a good addition to the commander that fits well in boosting the power of riflemen.

Mechanized is getting nerfed because it gets picked so much so the view is that it is OP. It gets picked because the USF base faction is lacking some things that this fills - there's no OP superheavy call in or airstrike. I honestly would pick this less if the WC151 was part of the base faction because I grab it to give me an extra opening unit.

Mechanized is getting nerfed because it gets picked so much so the view is that it is OP. It gets picked because the USF base faction is lacking some things that this fills - there's no OP superheavy call in or airstrike. I honestly would pick this less if the WC151 was part of the base faction because I grab it to give me an extra opening unit.

That makes no sense:

1) Urban Assault Company, Airborne Company are picked more often for loadout. Shouldn't they get nerfed too, if that is the argument?
2) Why double nerfing 76mm as the core unit directly (RoF) and indirectly (RoF/sight at combined arms) when WC51 is the unit this is about?
3) While beeing at the top pics in 1vs1, Mechanized loadout rate is abyssal at all other game modes, beeing last loadout pick at 2vs2. 3vs3 and 4vs4. 1vs1 is the only game mode it gets played at all. Nerfing it at 1vs1 without compensation will result in not getting picked at any game mode.

I really understand the removal of the very powerful Dozer upgrade. But Imo double nerf of 76mm RoF is too much.

That makes no sense:

1) Urban Assault Company, Airborne Company are picked more often for loadout. Shouldn't they get nerfed too, if that is the argument?
2) Why double nerfing 76mm as the core unit directly (RoF) and indirectly (RoF/sight at combined arms) when WC51 is the unit this is about?
3) While beeing at the top pics in 1vs1, Mechanized loadout rate is abyssal at all other game modes, beeing last loadout pick at 2vs2. 3vs3 and 4vs4. 1vs1 is the only game mode it gets played at all. Nerfing it at 1vs1 without compensation will result in not getting picked at any game mode.

I really understand the removal of the very powerful Dozer upgrade. But Imo double nerf of 76mm RoF is too much.

Wasn't this always like that? The big brain team nerfs something deemed OP without any rework at all. That is, pure nerfs with nothing in return. Calliope is OP, nerfed to the ground without any rework to it.. Pak howi was good, now it can't wipe for s***. It did get the 6 man in return but that's just a gimmick. Makes it a tad more survivable against werfers, and that's it. E8 is getting put in line with comet in laughable ways. Now the Mechanized is getting a nerf without anything substantial in return. Don't get me wrong, a lot of nerfs were needed on some USF units as well as OST... but just plain nerfing something is such a lazy way of doing things. If you're going to do something, do it right or let somebody else do it right.


Same happened with Ostruppen. They got a hard nerf with nothing in return, which now might go to a hard buff. 0 imagination or any sort of brainstorm, but that's how it's been since relic passed the club of detonation over to them.
Patch --> 1v1 meta builds arise --> nerfing meta builds
Reworking units is too much of a hassle it seems.
What a rework would mean: Keeping a unit unique.
Eg. Calliope was OP, no doubt. Instead of making it a copy paste of katyusha. Nerf the agility to the ground, reduce the min range, keep it sturdier.
Pak howi - nerf accuracy on autofire so that it's unreliable against everything except mega blobs and make barrage a bit more accurate. Not the AOE nerf it got last update.

Scott, for example, received a rework. It became a mobile platform for accurate barrages on team weapons. Had autofire nerfed but barrage is reliable. Plus, the smoke is downright amazing on it. A reworked unit.

That makes no sense:

1) Urban Assault Company, Airborne Company are picked more often for loadout. Shouldn't they get nerfed too, if that is the argument?
2) Why double nerfing 76mm as the core unit directly (RoF) and indirectly (RoF/sight at combined arms) when WC51 is the unit this is about?
3) While beeing at the top pics in 1vs1, Mechanized loadout rate is abyssal at all other game modes, beeing last loadout pick at 2vs2. 3vs3 and 4vs4. 1vs1 is the only game mode it gets played at all. Nerfing it at 1vs1 without compensation will result in not getting picked at any game mode.

I really understand the removal of the very powerful Dozer upgrade. But Imo double nerf of 76mm RoF is too much.

I don't agree with it either but that was the stated reasoning behind the first WC51 nerf. It was over utilized in top 1v1 games so the thinking was that they need to nerf it to make other commanders get picked more.

Clearly. Relic just killing all strong points of mechanized company, and gives nothing back. Just killing a Commander.

Truly, 76mm Sherman AP shell reload time nerf? Than must give the 75mm sherman Dozer Blade back and reduce 76mm's nerf.

It says 4.1~4.5 to 4.85~5.2.
But I think about its reload time reduces to 4.5~5.0 is enough.

And easy eight still have lack of DPS and Penetrations.

Sherman 75mm and Easy eight gets reload bonus at late time. So I think its reload bonus at V3 increased 20% to 25%.
Yeah, I know they have radio net skill but It can't be performed full Radio net(3 unit radio net) so 25% will not become OP.

Easy eight's reload time is 6.0~6.6 and I think it should reduced to 5.2~5.6

And its penetration is 200/165/155 now, I also think its penetration increased to 210/185/160.

And Never. NEVER Forget reducing the M10s' target Size Lower than Shermans

Great changes with the recent Commander patch guys. I'm really satisfied with the USF changes thus far.

240mm guaranteeing a howitzer kill is an awesome addition as a lot of commanders lack a call-in to counter a howitzer.

Sherman 76 is pretty powerful. I find myself using it a lot especially in team games. Please make sure to apply the same change to the Soviet lend-lease Sherman 76. They are supposed to be identical iirc (?). I did not see notes mentioning the Soviet 76 Sherman.

I'm really glad that the E8 is getting looked at. I think additional weapon accuracy and sight may be helpful compared to a .50 cal but the two upgrades are quite similar in terms of AI. A marginal power upgrade is not going to 'save' the tank. If the intent is not to give it better AI capabilities then why not just turn it into an American Panther? Similar levels of cost, armour and perhaps a CP8 requirement to block it from coming too early. Its essentially a gimped, cheaper version of a Panther already which makes it not fun to play with when going up against an actual Panther.

Anyway good change lads, I look forward to the next set of patch notes. I think there is still work to be done.

Wasn't this always like that? The big brain team nerfs something deemed OP without any rework at all. That is, pure nerfs with nothing in return. Calliope is OP, nerfed to the ground without any rework to it.. Pak howi was good, now it can't wipe for s***. It did get the 6 man in return but that's just a gimmick. Makes it a tad more survivable against werfers, and that's it. E8 is getting put in line with comet in laughable ways. Now the Mechanized is getting a nerf without anything substantial in return. Don't get me wrong, a lot of nerfs were needed on some USF units as well as OST... but just plain nerfing something is such a lazy way of doing things. If you're going to do something, do it right or let somebody else do it right.


Same happened with Ostruppen. They got a hard nerf with nothing in return, which now might go to a hard buff. 0 imagination or any sort of brainstorm, but that's how it's been since relic passed the club of detonation over to them.
Patch --> 1v1 meta builds arise --> nerfing meta builds
Reworking units is too much of a hassle it seems.
What a rework would mean: Keeping a unit unique.
Eg. Calliope was OP, no doubt. Instead of making it a copy paste of katyusha. Nerf the agility to the ground, reduce the min range, keep it sturdier.
Pak howi - nerf accuracy on autofire so that it's unreliable against everything except mega blobs and make barrage a bit more accurate. Not the AOE nerf it got last update.

Scott, for example, received a rework. It became a mobile platform for accurate barrages on team weapons. Had autofire nerfed but barrage is reliable. Plus, the smoke is downright amazing on it. A reworked unit.

To be fair: Mechanized Commander has an incredible tool kit. It gets so many good vehicles. The doctrine slots are consolidated to provide 2 bonuses per 1 slot. The recent HT bonus buffed mechanized a fair bit too since he has access to HTs at a fairly early stage too. Wc51 is probably one of the best early game light vehicles in the game with an officer like tool kit and even with improved mark. Early game it fights pretty well and transports well and late game, its basically your wheeled officer squad with mark and arty call in for hard points. Even with basic mark, it would still be a great ability. Lets not mention that it has scout detection too. I don't see other officer squads with scout detection. But then again, I don't see other officer squads dying to a pak wall.

Now lets be fair with the 76mm Sherman. Its basically an solid upgrade to the normal Sherman for only 15 fuel. The normal round is slightly worse than HE in terms of AI but much better against armour and the HVAP shell, while its a meme, is useful sometimes vs big cats. I still see it bounce on Panthers though which makes me think why bother.

Lower RoF on 76mm Sherman is a small price to pay to have this versatile and fun commander. The wide variety is what makes this commander great. A nerf to the 76 just means you should put more focus on his other vehicles. Perhaps if you're in need of AI then maybe you should start pumping out more mortar HTs and microing them. Speaking strictly from a team games perspective.

Wow I feel like an idiot because I use mech so much but does the WC51 have mark target??

Wow I feel like an idiot because I use mech so much but does the WC51 have mark target??

yes, it's vet 1 ability

Wow I feel like an idiot because I use mech so much but does the WC51 have mark target??

There is few skills that are not likely used much thus forgot. Like RE's volly fire prior to bug fix (-97% accuracy instead of 3% increase. I thought this was intentional! Wasn't this been as so since the faction first came out?).
or g43 interrogation. TBH pretty much never used it... Even tho I like g43 because of it's good accuracy.

To be fair: Mechanized Commander has an incredible tool kit. It gets so many good vehicles. The doctrine slots are consolidated to provide 2 bonuses per 1 slot. The recent HT bonus buffed mechanized a fair bit too since he has access to HTs at a fairly early stage too. Wc51 is probably one of the best early game light vehicles in the game with an officer like tool kit and even with improved mark. Early game it fights pretty well and transports well and late game, its basically your wheeled officer squad with mark and arty call in for hard points. Even with basic mark, it would still be a great ability. Lets not mention that it has scout detection too. I don't see other officer squads with scout detection. But then again, I don't see other officer squads dying to a pak wall.

Now lets be fair with the 76mm Sherman. Its basically an solid upgrade to the normal Sherman for only 15 fuel. The normal round is slightly worse than HE in terms of AI but much better against armour and the HVAP shell, while its a meme, is useful sometimes vs big cats. I still see it bounce on Panthers though which makes me think why bother.

Lower RoF on 76mm Sherman is a small price to pay to have this versatile and fun commander. The wide variety is what makes this commander great. A nerf to the 76 just means you should put more focus on his other vehicles. Perhaps if you're in need of AI then maybe you should start pumping out more mortar HTs and microing them. Speaking strictly from a team games perspective.

I agree. However, my point is not "USF MY FAV FACTION, NO NERF PLZ", but that a rework is more suited. As much as I can't stand general V, she (Assuming she is a she according to John) does have one good trait. Whenever she wants to nerf allies, she proposes it through a rework, rather than just a straight nerf (disguising nerfs as buffs, but still, a rework).

Is Mechanized a menace in 1v1s? Definitely. However, I would much rather prefer a rework of units than token changes or just straight nerfs/buffs.

Eg. pak howi got a straight nerf without any sort of late game indirect buff to anything. Scott got reworked. Some might call Scott nerfed, some buffed. I call it reworked and as such a positive. As I have said. I would have left the pak howi shock value the same (AOE dmg) and nerf the autofire accuracy. That way, if you want to displace something fast, you need a barrage, which has a cooldown. 2nd scenario: A blob is coming -> you can punish it as blobs don't really need high accuracy, just AOE.
3rd scenario: A good player that moves it's units coherently will not get punished by Pak because it's inaccurate to shoot at a moving squad or two, and if behind cover, won't really hit directly in the first or second hit.

E8 is getting straight buffs. Does E8 deserve buffs? Sure. Does it need a rework? Even more so.
In the patchnotes it states that they want to bring it to comet level, but they are, IMHO, a bit inconsequential (except range).

They buffed range. Sure, good change for comet level.
They slightly buffed agility. Sure, a decent buff that can go ways.
Now they add the different upgrade which can fortify the E8 as a tank hunter. Accuracy and sight to really be superior to solo P4s. Not Panther level, but for P4s and even JP4s, more than enough. That is a good change as well. What I would only do now, is buff it's armour by 15 (about 4.5% less chance of penetration) and further increase price by 5-10 fuel (155 or 160 fuel) and call it a day.
That way it will be a true premium tank hunter. Superior to Jackson in some regards because it would have decent AI and good veterancy and could be used for critical mass, giving USF one itsy bitsy late game power with rifle company. It wouldn't be penetrated fu*k always (I only ever seen it bounce P4 shots here and there). So while Jackson would give you pure AT power, E8 would trade some of that for the dive-in plays, and "not get wrecked by solo P4 diving into your jackson" utility. If you catch my drift. You sacrifice AT power for staying power.
The only question is: Would that make E8 a tad OP in 1v1s? I doubt it since the commander itself is nothing special. Not even for 1v1s. The E8 would be a selling point. You get a sturdy, a bit more agile Sherman that can go toe to toe with P4s and needs support vs Panthers. You would need a Panther vs E8s but 2xE8s would still not stand a chance vs a Panther unless in a complete vacuum with not blockers whatsoever.


That's my point. I'd much rather we had bigger reworks than some token changes here and there. The Pershing will still be the weakest heavy and seldom picked unless 2v2 or some wild 4v4.
Rangers will be a tad better. Considering the price/pop, they should.
Another change that might kill a unit: Calliope HP to 320. The armour nerf is justified, but the HP one is not. One reason only. It's doctrinal late tank. It's not in Stuka/Werfer timing and it's not stock. Needing one less hit from any AT weapon will really make it vulnerable. IMHO the better nerf would have been armour nerf + agility nerf. So that even if you go for some shotgun action, anything that is not as slow as an elefant will be able to put 3-4 shots in you before you escape. And even trading a puma or sth would make it a good trade.

I know Mechanized Company's Nerf is have reason of WC51. but I cannot understand this Nerf Combo.

First. Remove Reserve armor and Replaced with 76mm Sherman only,
Second. Nerf Combined Arms.
Third. Even Nerfed 76mm Sherman's AP Shell RoF.

Frankly. If all These nerfs Go through. It won't Follow the original meaning of this patch.

make Less-used Commander like Armor company and make Evenly Used commanders, But these Patches are Overgone.

At now, Mechanized have advantages like these.

-Advanced, and Various Sherman Upgrades and make Diversity of USF Armor Cards.

-High 76mm Sherman's DPS make Confidence to USF Armor's Brawl.

-Combined Arms make infantries and Vehicles Fight Clearly Better.

-Dozered Sherman gives a way to Escape against get 100% penetrated all tanks against Pak or Raketenwerfer and Heavy Crush(75mm Sherman Dozer have 216 Armor at Front, 108 Armor at Rear)


Mechanized Company's Weakpoints are these.

-According to Various Sherman Upgrades. one of the Lowest Jackson-Use-Rates and Weak against Panter and Jagdpanzer IV

-When Flank Route is Blocked, Mechanized Company can be the Weakest Commander because This Commander doesn't have many Active Skills.

-Not balanced Resource Use(High use on Fuel. but Munitions are Flowing. so After Grabbin Riflemen BARs, Just some Skills like AT nade or At Satchel. just can Pour it to Sherman's Turret top MG.

-Doesn't have Any Super Weapons

-Doesn't have Any Offmap Barrage. if Barrage Needed,WC51 must Dive after the Major Dispatched.


and these planned patches will Steal Mechanized Company's all Brawl fight Strength(76mm Sherman's RoF and 75mm Dozer Bladed Sherman's Slightly increased Hardness) but Not Covering its Weakpoints.

So. I will say If really 76mm Sherman AP shell RoF nerfed, then Reserve Armor must be Preserved and some points of Shermans should be buffed.

I offer this Idea for Mechanized Company.

-First. Give Back Reserve armor but Nerfing Dozer blade Cost 50mp 20Fuel to 50MP 25Fuel.

-75mm Sherman and 76mm Sherman's Shell change Time reduce 6sec to 5sec.

-75mm Sherman and Easy eight's V3 Reload Bonus increased 20% to 25%
(max Radio nets gives same as other 12 pop medium tanks, 30% once + 20% once. but almost never happens Sherman with over 4 Medium Tanks. So needs Some Advantegs.)

-76mm Sherman's AP shell Penetration Buff (140/130/120) to (165/150/135)

-M10s' Target Size reduce X22 to X18~X20(Lower than Sherman)

Yeah, the mechanized might have been nerfed into oblivion. If you individually pick any nerf they seem logical, but in accumulation they are too much for the doctrine.

Now lets be fair with the 76mm Sherman. Its basically an solid upgrade to the normal Sherman for only 15 fuel. The normal round is slightly worse than HE in terms of AI but much better against armour.

He-Sherman has AOE of 4 with a far damage of 16, normal shell of 76mm has AOE of 2 with a far damage of 8. This is not "slightly" but worlds apart... 76mm covered some of this huge difference (not all of it) with a faster RoF and thus was a swarm alternative to the standard combo of M4A3 and M36, especially when used with "combined arms" in the right moment. Thats pretty much gone now.

Lower RoF on 76mm Sherman is a small price to pay to have this versatile and fun commander.

The biggest problem of the Company is that it is not very versatile. It relies heavily on an early LV push followed by a midgame Sherman push which is timed with combined arms. It has no tools if that ends without success.

There is a reason the Company is so low ranked in multiplayer loadout pick (last one in 2vs2/3vs3/4vs4).

yes, it's vet 1 ability

I was able to use it at vet 0 on a fresh wc51. I think the arty barrage is a vet 1 ability.

He-Sherman has AOE of 4 with a far damage of 16, normal shell of 76mm has AOE of 2 with a far damage of 8. This is not "slightly" but worlds apart... 76mm covered some of this huge difference (not all of it) with a faster RoF and thus was a swarm alternative to the standard combo of M4A3 and M36, especially when used with "combined arms" in the right moment. Thats pretty much gone now.


The biggest problem of the Company is that it is not very versatile. It relies heavily on an early LV push followed by a midgame Sherman push which is timed with combined arms. It has no tools if that ends without success.

There is a reason the Company is so low ranked in multiplayer loadout pick (last one in 2vs2/3vs3/4vs4).

Hmmm thats odd because I enjoy using Mechanized in 4v4s mainly. Its always on my roster. I know other factions have their niche but in a fuel heavy game mode, Mechanized Company really shines to me. They have an answer to almost everything and they have one of the best generalist mediums imo being the 76 Sherman.

My main complaint with the 76 is that HVAP still sometimes bounces rounds and with the reduced fire-rate, really makes it not a good choice. Why fire a better round when it still can bounce? I would rather fire more rounds with a higher bounce chance. Pretty sure if someone took the statistics on fire-rate + pen rate, normal rounds are probably better vs Panther. It certainly feels that way.

Perhaps Balance team needs to increase the fire rate on HVAP to compensate the reduced fire rate on normal rounds.

Hmmm thats odd because I enjoy using Mechanized in 4v4s mainly. Its always on my roster. I know other factions have their niche but in a fuel heavy game mode, Mechanized Company really shines to me. They have an answer to almost everything and they have one of the best generalist mediums imo being the 76 Sherman.

My main complaint with the 76 is that HVAP still sometimes bounces rounds and with the reduced fire-rate, really makes it not a good choice. Why fire a better round when it still can bounce? I would rather fire more rounds with a higher bounce chance. Pretty sure if someone took the statistics on fire-rate + pen rate, normal rounds are probably better vs Panther. It certainly feels that way.

Perhaps Balance team needs to increase the fire rate on HVAP to compensate the reduced fire rate on normal rounds.

I think this is pretty much the case. If you factor in ROF and penetration only, the normal rounds perform roughly the same in terms of TTK vs a Panther compared to the HVAP shells (median is 45.5 s and 44.5 s at 10 m and 50.1 s and 50.8 s at max range for AP and HVAP, respectively, so HVAP is slightly better up close but things are pretty even at long range).

However, HVAP rounds also have much better accuracy than the normal AP shells and you actually gain an up to 40% higher chance to sore a natural hit (accuracy roll, not scatter hit) at max range. That's IMHO their greatest benefit and it's easily worth to switch to HVAP during most long-range tank engagements because of this alone. The ROF decrease in the beta widens the performance gap even further, so I'd expect to see HVAP being used even more frequently if these changes make it into the live game (if the M4C will still be viable then, that is).

That being said I'm still kind of on the fence towards the ROF change, though after running the numbers the effect on the AI performance isn't all too great (mostly only a ~8-10% loss). Guess we'll have to wait and see how this turns out after a bit more testing.