Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

The whole AEF commander update is pointless.

Pershing: The problem with it is not the repair part, sure REs repair it slowly but it's still useless with it's low armour/HP and an overnerfed main gun without any pintles to deal steady dmg. If it had it's old AI gun, then yeah, it would be useful, but the current one won't wipe anything, and it's armour won't be used as a breakthrough and it's agility is not really that high to drive it around like a deja-vu drift session.

Rifle nade nerf: One of, if not the weakest upgrade. Only situationally good in 1v1s. And that's a hell of a situation as well.

E8 changes: Sure you can add the 5 more range and if penetration scales linearly, you'd have slightly better penetration on close to mid range but it's still a useless tank. Not any faster than a Panther, not armoured, mediocre AI, mediocre AT. Sure, 1v1 it will brawl with P4s but nobody builds only P4s throughout the game and you'll be forced to go 2x Jackson and abandon the E8s once Panthers and heavier duty armour starts rolling out.

Combined Arms nerf: Never used it, don't think it has any utility besides looking good on paper. At least not in 3v3s. Haven't seen anyone use it so it's a quasi change, only for the sake of having a bigger change log.

240mm barrage: Could be useful, who knows

Cav Rifles: 5 muni buff is memeworthy. Because you know, those 5 muni really gives you the upper edge since you'll be calling it non-stop now and we all know that brick by brick and you get a palace

Fired up: Meh, it's still in a commander that is downright useless and costs a full ability point so don't think anyone will pick Rifle company to make their rifles run

Heavy Cav smoke: This is a super useful thing. Even though it's inferior to other smoke drops, it still has it's uses. 10 muni change won't make much of a difference. Again, change to make the log longer

IR Barrage: Stupid nerf. If you spend so much muni just to displace an MG, it must mean you're playing 1v1. Don't know why nerf it. Recon company is weak as it is.

Calliope: What is the point of it with the nerf? It comes super late and only takes 1 more shot to kill than a stuka which comes much earlier and is much cheaper. Not to mention it has a much higher chance of wiping, whereas Calliope is more of an area denier with large scatter. Armour nerf is justified, but the HP one is not

Ranger change: Non sensical, didn't need any buffs

RE flame package: another buff that is not really needed. Only there to give a sense of a longer change log

.....


All in all, the balance team proves once again that they are biased. Nothing new

Sturmpanther: http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198046481660/standings

* Pretty much only plays Axis AT 4v4

JibberJabberJobber: http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198090318538/standings

*Wehrmacht player

Aerafield ( http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198062101687/standings )

*plays anything and from his post history you can see that he advocates for good axis/allies buffs/nerfs. Justified and unbiased (probably the only one in team)

Whorunbartertown: http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198155221839/standings

* Everything except brits

Rest of the balance team plays everything.
Now I would never want to balance this game as it's toxic to balance and I'm biased towards USF, but not biased enough to know that USF has it's toxic traits, especially in 1v1 where it is quite strong.

Still, if these [https://coh2stats.com/stats/week/1616371200/4v4/wermacht] stats are true, why the hell would anyone do the changes they have done. It says it's top 200, and in top 200 the disparity between the win rates goes up to 10% (60/40) in team games, in favor of axis.

Even in 1v1 the brits lose hard. Everyone saying how IS are OP and everything but still having such a poor win rate and such a sh** pick rate.

In the end. Having a balance team that exclusively plays axis AT team games, paired with some of the loudest screechers on these forums, you get the balance patch we have now. Sure, some of the balance changes are welcome and needed, especially some of the OKW buffs and nerfs (flares) but the AEF is really nonsensical.

The winter balance nerfs pak howi which won't wipe for s*** now.
Scott becomes a barrage weapon for team weapons, nothing deadly, just to displace.
Pershing still has a weak AI gun (Strongest among the heavies but other factions actually have stock AI AOE weapons like katy, stuka, werfer....)
Now a Calliope over nerf where one Panther can easily kill it and get out, especially if you don't have one AT + snare to catch the speedy panther (stock mines are meme). Considering the cost and timing, why would anyone get it in anything above 1v1?

I mean, the graph goes to 2000 in COH2 match statistics for 1v1s and up to 20 000 and 5000 for 4v4 and 3v3 respectively. So many more games played in those modes where AEF is memeworthy already if Calliope is not picked and Axis pretty much dominates late game unless an ISU 152 (assuming at least 1 soviet ally) is picked, which forces an Ele/Jagd doctrine pick, which are picked anyway due to the sheer power of those doctrines.

I understand that if you buff AEF for 3v3, you could break it in 1v1 but over nerfing stuff that is not OP does not seem logical.

Calliope: Restore HP to 400, leave armour/range nerf OR lower price/CP if HP is 320

Pershing: Buff armour to 290 or 300 OR buff armour to 280 (3% less chance to pen) and buff AI slightly in gun

IR barrage: Reduce back to 5s. The flares thing is justified

E8: Buff armour as well and increase the price further. Don't say it's "in range of Comet" when it's not even close. Putting 60 range on a Stuart would not put it in range of Jackson.

M8 Greyhound: Buff something. The 5 muni reduction is idiotic at best. Useless unit in a generally nonsensical commander that adds no versatility unless you really need that pak howi alongside the Stuart.

Rifle nade: One big LOL. I'll let you figure out if adding even more micro on the faction, and micro on a weapon that has a long fuse, low dmg, costs 60 muni and is downright useless unless Skippy spams it in one of his meme 4v4 matches where he only builds REs all game.


AEF needs many more meaningful changes, not the BS you've put out.

"Team! I have it! You know that useless commander unit? I've got it! Reduce ability cost by 5 muni. That should put it on the map again!"

"Wow, such brilliance!"

snip

To add to all this when I don't feel like having to micro much or even think I play Ostheer and 80% of the time I'll win without effort.
As for these dumb ass changes - none of the US buffs were even necessary while also most of the nerfs are absolutely unjustified. In fact many of those "buffs" are just changes for the sake of changing things and shouldn't even be considered buffs. Last patch US indirect got shat on so this patch the Calliope needs to be trash so wunderwaffle Panthers can dive in and get out with impunity. I will also second the notion that Pershing needs a few serious buffs. I can't even remember when was the last time I saw one built in 4v4s except for when I built it myself. The only actually sort of not pointless buff was for the howitzer Sherman but that's it.

Combined Arms nerf: Never used it, don't think it has any utility besides looking good on paper. At least not in 3v3s. Haven't seen anyone use it so it's a quasi change, only for the sake of having a bigger change log

Combined Arms doesn't have any utility in 3v3? Excuse me? This is one of the best abilities in the game. Especially in teamgames where you can blob up your tanks and infantry easier. Jacksons in particular wipe the floor with anything they encounter with 65 range, fast reload and high sight range.

Though I'm personally against changing it, because I think it's fine to have these kinds of very strong abilities in the game. It takes quite a lot of work to set up and use. Another issue is that lowering the vehicle reload bonus to -15% is actually only like a -9% effective bonus, because many USF vehicles (all the open topped ones) have wind up and wind down included in their reload which do not get affected by the bonus.

What this big post tells us, is that you have 0 idea what you are talking about.

All in all, the balance team proves once again that they are biased. Nothing new

Sturmpanther: http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198046481660/standings

* Pretty much only plays Axis AT 4v4

JibberJabberJobber: http://www.companyofheroes.com/leaderboards#profile/steam/76561198090318538/standings

*Wehrmacht player

wtf even? both sturmpanther and jibber play all factions on a pretty high level, something you don't do for even one faction as per your own admission.
won't go into detail about the rest of your rant, which is dunning kruger at its finest.

Combined Arms doesn't have any utility in 3v3? Excuse me? This is one of the best abilities in the game. Especially in teamgames where you can blob up your tanks and infantry easier. Jacksons in particular wipe the floor with anything they encounter with 65 range, fast reload and high sight range.

Though I'm personally against changing it, because I think it's fine to have these kinds of very strong abilities in the game. It takes quite a lot of work to set up and use. Another issue is that lowering the vehicle reload bonus to -15% is actually only like a -9% effective bonus, because many USF vehicles (all the open topped ones) have wind up and wind down included in their reload which do not get affected by the bonus.

Dont know which map can you blob Jacksons and not get punished for it. Once or twice that I have used it was to make a hail Mary push with Shermans and unupgraded rangers. And even then it was a shi* ton of bounces and barely managed to break through. But that is more of a map problem. Except for steppes and whiteball, the rest of the 3v3 map pool is lane-y BS that prioritizes ele/jagd/isu/lefh and campy stuff like that. Heck, couple of games ago one guy managed to spam more lefhs than we had solutions to kill them. Lucikly the major recon exists. Combined arms is overrated. I've seen olays with it a couple of years ago in a 3v3 where 2 USF player spammed jacksons (literally, jacksons and a rifle or two, basically no AI) and the axis player spammed P4s and Panthers (something that is wrecked by your scenario). Other than that. No. Combined arms is good on paper but only ever useful for Hail Mary's. Besides, its in a commander with a pershing, and if you take the pershing, good luck getting other tanks out. So one commander that can actually use it in the end

wtf even? both sturmpanther and jibber play all factions on a pretty high level, something you don't do for even one faction as per your own admission.
won't go into detail about the rest of your rant, which is dunning kruger at its finest.

If you say so. The number of games played on their matchcard says otherwise.
Even more so if you factor in that they play from the start (do they?). Truth is that I play competitive 3v3 with USF only. And I play top 10 once in 20 games that I get queued with/against. Most of the time I play with top 200 arranged teams, which is not really anything dangerous. But I've enough games to make an educated judgement about the current state of affairs... And what? For past 3 years I play one competitive game per week in the 1000 hours I racked up so far. In the end I dont care really about any of this... But still care enough to make the custom leisure games more fun (which I play more)
While I agree with the majority of changes, from all factions, buffs and nerfs, I do not understand why such inconsequential changes are being made in my fav faction.
Can you say with a straight face that the 5 muni decrease or the "pershing" rework will make those units worth it?
Calliope was OP, no doubt about that. But does it's timing and price and doctrinal only availability justify 2 hit/100% penetration/low agility justify it? I dont care, since I never play Calliope, but the "logic" and the constant "in line with" BS is not really consistent. By all means, make it 1h kill (justiy as if you hit it, the rockets explode and destroy the tank), and non doctrinal and cheaper. Copy paste every unit and call it a aday. Or stop the BS changes and reworks that do exactly nothing. Heck, I even advocated that they do not nerf 5 man grens. Had no problem dealing with them in 3v3 (but they were cancer in 1v1)

Combined Arms doesn't have any utility in 3v3? Excuse me? This is one of the best abilities in the game. Especially in teamgames where you can blob up your tanks and infantry easier. Jacksons in particular wipe the floor with anything they encounter with 65 range, fast reload and high sight range.

Though I'm personally against changing it, because I think it's fine to have these kinds of very strong abilities in the game. It takes quite a lot of work to set up and use. Another issue is that lowering the vehicle reload bonus to -15% is actually only like a -9% effective bonus, because many USF vehicles (all the open topped ones) have wind up and wind down included in their reload which do not get affected by the bonus.

Hey in the notes, it says calliope is recieved a min range nerf but it isn't specified. Any idea how much of a min nerf it's getting?

Hey in the notes, it says calliope is recieved a min range nerf but it isn't specified. Any idea how much of a min nerf it's getting?

It went from 40 to 50 range I believe.

If you say so. The number of games played on their matchcard says otherwise.
Even more so if you factor in that they play from the start (do they?). Truth is that I play competitive 3v3 with USF only. And I play top 10 once in 20 games that I get queued with/against. Most of the time I play with top 200 arranged teams, which is not really anything dangerous. But I've enough games to make an educated judgement about the current state of affairs... And what? For past 3 years I play one competitive game per week in the 1000 hours I racked up so far. In the end I dont care really about any of this... But still care enough to make the custom leisure games more fun (which I play more)
While I agree with the majority of changes, from all factions, buffs and nerfs, I do not understand why such inconsequential changes are being made in my fav faction.
Can you say with a straight face that the 5 muni decrease or the "pershing" rework will make those units worth it?
Calliope was OP, no doubt about that. But does it's timing and price and doctrinal only availability justify 2 hit/100% penetration/low agility justify it? I dont care, since I never play Calliope, but the "logic" and the constant "in line with" BS is not really consistent. By all means, make it 1h kill (justiy as if you hit it, the rockets explode and destroy the tank), and non doctrinal and cheaper. Copy paste every unit and call it a aday. Or stop the BS changes and reworks that do exactly nothing. Heck, I even advocated that they do not nerf 5 man grens. Had no problem dealing with them in 3v3 (but they were cancer in 1v1)

i don't argue that some of the changes, especially for USF have missed the mark, at least from my point of view. but i do acknowledge that i sometimes just don't have the full picture as to why some of these changes were made in the form they were and thus my judgment isn't always gospel - which is something people should consider for themselves every now and then. that's all i wanted to say i guess and apologies if it came across the wrong way.
couple this with the fact that this is only the first iteration of the beta and a lot of these changes are a bit over the top on purpose i'd say it's a bit too early for a final judgment.

I remember the Calliope being able to fire it's main gun and the barrage had an ammo cost but then they removed both in the old CoH.

Maybe give it the same stats as the regular Sherman here and a toggle for the main gun plus a bigger price to equal it's effectiveness?

i don't argue that some of the changes, especially for USF have missed the mark, at least from my point of view. but i do acknowledge that i sometimes just don't have the full picture as to why some of these changes were made in the form they were and thus my judgment isn't always gospel - which is something people should consider for themselves every now and then. that's all i wanted to say i guess and apologies if it came across the wrong way.
couple this with the fact that this is only the first iteration of the beta and a lot of these changes are a bit over the top on purpose i'd say it's a bit too early for a final judgment.

You don't need to be an autistic 1v1 top 10 player to see many of the changes are biased as shit, especially because the "balance" team doesn't care about team games at all. You can also clearly see the game is slowly but steadily becoming a samey "e-sports" game which is laughable because I wouldn't count those tournaments for the 10 people stil playing them e-sports.
With every game I've played recently I'm losing more and more will to play this game thanks to the bullshit that still hasn't been touched because it wasn't deemed a problem by the few top literal whos and this commander patch is just going to speed up this process.

I remember the Calliope being able to fire it's main gun and the barrage had an ammo cost but then they removed both in the old CoH.

Maybe give it the same stats as the regular Sherman here and a toggle for the main gun plus a bigger price to equal it's effectiveness?

Axis screeching would have no end if you could use the Calliope as a normal Sherman although I would like that change.

You don't need to be an autistic 1v1 top 10 player to see many of the changes are biased as shit, especially because the "balance" team doesn't care about team games at all. You can also clearly see the game is slowly but steadily becoming a samey "e-sports" game which is laughable because I wouldn't count those tournaments for the 10 people stil playing them e-sports.
With every game I've played recently I'm losing more and more will to play this game thanks to the bullshit that still hasn't been touched because it wasn't deemed a problem by the few top literal whos and this commander patch is just going to speed up this process.



Axis screeching would have no end if you could use the Calliope as a normal Sherman although I would like that change.

Well, it'd be more meant as a self-defense thing.

Of course it's gonna most likely be targeted specifically if you try and use it as a normal Sherman but at least you won't really have an excuse when it does actually die that you couldn't do anything about it.

Similar to how the Panzerwerfer and Stuka at least have an MG gunner so a low HP model or 2 can't just run up to it and snare it that easily.

You don't need to be an autistic 1v1 top 10 player to see many of the changes are biased as shit, especially because the "balance" team doesn't care about team games at all. You can also clearly see the game is slowly but steadily becoming a samey "e-sports" game which is laughable because I wouldn't count those tournaments for the 10 people stil playing them e-sports.
With every game I've played recently I'm losing more and more will to play this game thanks to the bullshit that still hasn't been touched because it wasn't deemed a problem by the few top literal whos and this commander patch is just going to speed up this process.

i hate to break it to you but these autistic 1v1 players always have been and will continue to be the ones this game is balanced around. and that's simply because 1v1 and 2v2 are the most competitive game modes where proper balance matters most, while 4v4 has always been and will always be casual. that is not to say 4v4s should be left in the dust, but if you're waiting for the game to be balanced around the largest, most random and chaotic game mode you'll spend a long time twiddling your thumbs.

Maybe give it the same stats as the regular Sherman here and a toggle for the main gun plus a bigger price to equal it's effectiveness?

There are no gun animations for the Calliope's main gun.

Axis screeching would have no end if you could use the Calliope as a normal Sherman although I would like that change.

At least one Axis player would be fine with it. The gripes with the Calliope have always been its firepower and durability. One has to go, and the main gun really won't stop a dive for it to matter anyway.

If the second Rear Echelon squad is redundant (which it typically is), why not just let the flamethrower and minesweeper be compatible with each other? We're already seeing that on Sturms.

I also retract my previous statements. The RE rifle grenade doesn't need to be nerfed this hard, maybe just a range decrease to fit around the flamethrower's range.

There are no gun animations for the Calliope's main gun.

Well, there are in the All Units mod tho.

i hate to break it to you but these autistic 1v1 players always have been and will continue to be the ones this game is balanced around. and that's simply because 1v1 and 2v2 are the most competitive game modes where proper balance matters most, while 4v4 has always been and will always be casual. that is not to say 4v4s should be left in the dust, but if you're waiting for the game to be balanced around the largest, most random and chaotic game mode you'll spend a long time twiddling your thumbs.

There's nothing to break to anyone because everyone who has been following changes since the first patches for CoH1 knows the games have always been balanced around 1v1 basement dwellers despite all the lies to the contrary. All this means the game will just become more and more bland, I can't stop it but I can at least say it out loud if only to later say "I told you so". And I can with most certainty say "I told you so" already.

There's nothing to break to anyone because everyone who has been following changes since the first patches for CoH1 knows the games have always been balanced around 1v1 basement dwellers despite all the lies to the contrary. All this means the game will just become more and more bland, I can't stop it but I can at least say it out loud if only to later say "I told you so". And I can with most certainty say "I told you so" already.

There's a reason why the game is balanced around 1v1. If you want the game to be balanced around 4v4 then you or someone else will need to host tournaments.