Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

At this point just put Cav Rifles into Rifle Company. (I think the weapon you're looking for is Grease Guns btw)

There are 2 version of Thompson "elite" used by paras/ranger/assault guards and officer Thompson used by officer/Cav/Assault IS (if I remember correctly)

At this point just put Cav Rifles into Rifle Company. (I think the weapon you're looking for is Grease Guns btw)

Meh, Grease Guns in game are for engineers and vehicle crews, and doesn't exactly seem advanced either. There's a ton of nonsensical weapon variants and profiles in game, I don't see the issue with common soldiers handling an smg worse than Rangers. Cavalry Rifles can't be your mainline infantry

There are 2 version of Thompson "elite" used by paras/ranger/assault guards and officer Thompson used by officer/Cav/Assault IS

Eh, that is still too powerful, barely lower dps than a single paratrooper thompson, the difference is the numbers mostly

Meh, Grease Guns in game are for engineers and vehicle crews, and doesn't exactly seem advanced either. There's a ton of nonsensical weapon variants and profiles in game, I don't see the issue with common soldiers handling an smg worse than Rangers. Cavalry Rifles can't be your mainline infantry

Cav Rifles use Grease Guns before they upgrade to Thompsons and it fit the profile you were talking about. Honestly I wouldn't be against just doing what they did to Heavy Fortifications for OKW and smashing Advanced Infantry Equipment + Rifleman Field Defenses together, then throwing Cav Rifles into Rifle Company. Would make the doctrine infinitely better.

Continued Wishlist:


Easy 8:
I think we've seen 3 reworks proposed for this unit now, but none have really hit the mark for most people. I've seen at least 2 other people suggest that they emphasize its speed and toughness over the earlier Sherman variants, and I'm inclined to agree thats the direction to go.

Let it continue to bully P4s, but make it fast and tough enough to get out of situations it can't win. Make it a legitimate threat to crush infantry and flank bigger tanks, while being tough enough to make it out alive.

Rangers:
I'd really like to see them get another ability. They are just so bland for an elite unit. Things like Fire Up, Smoke Grenades, or even Camo would help differentiate them more from Paras.

Mortar Halftrack:
Since the buffs to the Mortar, I find it harder and harder to justify getting one of these. The reduced costs to the special munitions are nice, but probably not enough to make me get one just for that. I'd like to see them consider reducing the fuel cost to 20. (This goes for the Ost Mortar HT as well)

Priest:
Calliope: 380/115
Priest: 480/115
Is that not ridiculous price differential to anyone else? They are even the same pop (15)

Greyhound:
I'm told they were considering further changes to this, but its still not a very exciting unit. I personally don't think 50cals should have variable costs, so I'd actually revert that buff in exchange for a better timing. It doesn't need to hit as fast as a Stuart, but it'd be nice to see one before the 10 min marker.

Infantry Company:
Its a pipe dream, but I'd love to see the Halftrack replaced by Rangers here. It would give the new Rangers a doc with the 1919, and give it elite infantry to further differentiate it from Rifle Company.

Heavy Calvary:
Swap Smoke Barrage for the 240mm in Armor Company.
The doc actually isn't the worst thing in the world for 1v1s right now, but since the big complaint about it seems to be its performance in teamgames, I would suggest moving the 240mm Barrage out of Armor and into Heavy Cav. If it keeps the LeFH killing power in some form, it will at least bring something besides the Pershing and Rangers to team games.

Recon Support:
I get the idea behind the Raid Tactics change, but I'm just not sure how useful it would ever really be. The doc is loaded with munitions sinks already, and USF already has the ability to cap with its vehicles. Fast cap or vehicle capping abilities tend to be among the least powerful tools you can put into a doctrinal point, it needs to either provide more combat/utility, be balanced entirely around cooldown, or else dumped to make their Paratroopers to be more affordable.

Armor Company:
So close to being strong. A little sad they are backing off the indirect on the 105 Sherman, the company desperately needs it to have a chance to see play in team games. The doc itself is surprisingly good in 1v1s, but cleaning up the 105 and the calldown give it the possibility to really come into its own.

Mechanized:
76 nerfs came out of nowhere tbh. At this point I would consider a full rework.

Cav Rifles use Grease Guns before they upgrade to Thompsons and it fit the profile you were talking about. Honestly I wouldn't be against just doing what they did to Heavy Fortifications for OKW and smashing Advanced Infantry Equipment + Rifleman Field Defenses together, then throwing Cav Rifles into Rifle Company. Would make the doctrine infinitely better.

Cavalry Rifles come in Mechanized because they are supposed to be Mechanized infantry. This is also why they should have Grease Guns. It wouldn't fit Rifle Company,the doctrine should be centered around Riflemen and RE

Continued Wishlist:


Easy 8:
I think we've seen 3 reworks proposed for this unit now, but none have really hit the mark for most people. I've seen at least 2 other people suggest that they emphasize its speed and toughness over the earlier Sherman variants, and I'm inclined to agree thats the direction to go.

Let it continue to bully P4s, but make it fast and tough enough to get out of situations it can't win. Make it a legitimate threat to crush infantry and flank bigger tanks, while being tough enough to make it out alive.

Rangers:
I'd really like to see them get another ability. They are just so bland for an elite unit. Things like Fire Up, Smoke Grenades, or even Camo would help differentiate them more from Paras.

Mortar Halftrack:
Since the buffs to the Mortar, I find it harder and harder to justify getting one of these. The reduced costs to the special munitions are nice, but probably not enough to make me get one just for that. I'd like to see them consider reducing the fuel cost to 20. (This goes for the Ost Mortar HT as well)

Priest:
Calliope: 380/115
Priest: 480/115
Is that not ridiculous price differential to anyone else? They are even the same pop (15)

Greyhound:
I'm told they were considering further changes to this, but its still not a very exciting unit. I personally don't think 50cals should have variable costs, so I'd actually revert that buff in exchange for a better timing. It doesn't need to hit as fast as a Stuart, but it'd be nice to see one before the 10 min marker.

Infantry Company:
Its a pipe dream, but I'd love to see the Halftrack replaced by Rangers here. It would give the new Rangers a doc with the 1919, and give it elite infantry to further differentiate it from Rifle Company.

Heavy Calvary:
Swap Smoke Barrage for the 240mm in Armor Company.
The doc actually isn't the worst thing in the world for 1v1s right now, but since the big complaint about it seems to be its performance in teamgames, I would suggest moving the 240mm Barrage out of Armor and into Heavy Cav. If it keeps the LeFH killing power in some form, it will at least bring something besides the Pershing and Rangers to team games.

Recon Support:
I get the idea behind the Raid Tactics change, but I'm just not sure how useful it would ever really be. The doc is loaded with munitions sinks already, and USF already has the ability to cap with its vehicles. Fast cap or vehicle capping abilities tend to be among the least powerful tools you can put into a doctrinal point, it needs to either provide more combat/utility, be balanced entirely around cooldown, or else dumped to make their Paratroopers to be more affordable.

Armor Company:
So close to being strong. A little sad they are backing off the indirect on the 105 Sherman, the company desperately needs it to have a chance to see play in team games. The doc itself is surprisingly good in 1v1s, but cleaning up the 105 and the calldown give it the possibility to really come into its own.

Mechanized:
76 nerfs came out of nowhere tbh. At this point I would consider a full rework.

Agreed. Big +. I'd also buff Pershing armor to 285 or 290 (and call it a day for the Pershing changes)
I wouldn't swap smoke for 240mm in heavy cav. The company would become OP. Offmap smoke is a great ability that can be utilized to great lenghts. Also it's non destructive. Having an offmap + heavy tank + elite squad (bland, expensive elite, but elite nonetheless) would kinda be too oppressive in 2v2s.

Continued Wishlist:

Priest:
Calliope: 380/115
Priest: 480/115
Is that not ridiculous price differential to anyone else? They are even the same pop (15)

The Priest has some INCREDIBLE statistics, I think its pretty dang good. It has the best FoW targeted shelling period thanks to 1.25 FoW mod and its great AoE damage statistics. With 180 base range it can pretty consistently shell out any enemy howitzers ( they normally aren't at full 250 to front line) and pretty much any base. The Priest is just very good, even with such high pop cost.

Are you saying the Calliope is too cheap or the Priest too expensive?

Rangers and sprint or camo is such a bad idea. At least in current iteration of them. Those guys sometimes can look shox like kids with nerf guns. 5 men squad with RA similar to Stormtroopers with 4 high dps SMGs with damage drop off near mid range. Yes, they are kind of tricky to use without smoke, but so as SMG Paras.

Continued Wishlist:
Rangers:
I'd really like to see them get another ability. They are just so bland for an elite unit. Things like Fire Up, Smoke Grenades, or even Camo would help differentiate them more from Paras.

Big + on that one. 3 weapon slots are nice but drop something in every occasion. I would much rather commando camouflage with like 3 thompsons.

Snip

I've just been trying to think of ways to make Companies without Arty more viable for team games. I was hoping the combination Heavy Tank + Elites + anti arty would be enough. I dunno if its oppressive given that OKW get both stock elites and a stock heavy tank, and can get decent call in in most docs. Granted, their Elites aren't an AT threat, but I don't necessarily think it would be broken unless Rangers got more buffs. (And if they did, you can always swap them out for Assault Engineers to repair the Pershing or Cav Rifles)

As far as the smoke goes, I occasionally find it useful, but it just doesn't feel as useful for USF as it does for Axis. You have plenty of alternative sources for it, including the free Mortar smoke. I won't pretend the 240mm is great in its current form (I lobbied for it to be reworked) but the balance team has said the ability is going to exist in some form. While not as good as ToT, it would give Heavy Cav additional presence in team games. (Although still probably not enough to justify over Urban)

snip

I have a pretty love/hate relationship with the Priest. Infantry is probably my most played Company this year, so maybe I'm just being a blind main, but it doesn't feel like its worth more than a Calliope.

It has a great RoF, getting 3 barrages for every 2 from the Calliope, (or 4 if it hits vet 1) and the damage is good enough to threaten vehicles and buildings. On the other hand, it tends to limit its targets to support weapons and stationary targets since it lacks the instant barrage abilities that enable Rocket Arty to punish moving squad and blobs. This is where Rocket Arty shines, as you can never really punish massed formations (blobs, concentrated setup teams) of enemy troops with a Priest and instead aim to whittle them down over time.

I won't be heartbroken if they don't get a cost reduction, I'm just consider the Priest to be at best even with the Calliope, so the pricing difference doesn't make sense to me.

Continued Wishlist:


Easy 8:
I think we've seen 3 reworks proposed for this unit now, but none have really hit the mark for most people. I've seen at least 2 other people suggest that they emphasize its speed and toughness over the earlier Sherman variants, and I'm inclined to agree thats the direction to go.

Let it continue to bully P4s, but make it fast and tough enough to get out of situations it can't win. Make it a legitimate threat to crush infantry and flank bigger tanks, while being tough enough to make it out alive.

Rangers:
I'd really like to see them get another ability. They are just so bland for an elite unit. Things like Fire Up, Smoke Grenades, or even Camo would help differentiate them more from Paras.


Infantry Company:
Its a pipe dream, but I'd love to see the Halftrack replaced by Rangers here. It would give the new Rangers a doc with the 1919, and give it elite infantry to further differentiate it from Rifle Company.

Heavy Calvary:
Swap Smoke Barrage for the 240mm in Armor Company.
The doc actually isn't the worst thing in the world for 1v1s right now, but since the big complaint about it seems to be its performance in teamgames, I would suggest moving the 240mm Barrage out of Armor and into Heavy Cav. If it keeps the LeFH killing power in some form, it will at least bring something besides the Pershing and Rangers to team games.

I do feel like rifle company promotes offensive play with rifles and closing the game out, so I enjoy the idea that the E8 is very good on the move as it promotes rifles running alongside the tank. I liked the idea of bringing riflemen smoke grenades back, but could have theirs be "higher cost". It depends on the limitations of what the balance team is allowed to do.

For Rangers, I love the idea of giving them Fire Up simply because it's thematic with their Coh1 incarnation but it'd probably be busted unless it lasts like 3 seconds. Panzer Grens have mobility with vehicles nearby so I imagine it wouldn't be too much of a stretch?

If Infantry company did that it'd probably be the best commander in the game unfortunately. Every commander has to have some weird niche thing.

I enjoy the smoke barrage in Heavy Calvary. Making it muni cheaper is going to make it a fine ability, just wish it plopped ever so slightly faster.

I agree with everything else though.

Continued Wishlist:


Easy 8:
I think we've seen 3 reworks proposed for this unit now, but none have really hit the mark for most people. I've seen at least 2 other people suggest that they emphasize its speed and toughness over the earlier Sherman variants, and I'm inclined to agree thats the direction to go.

Let it continue to bully P4s, but make it fast and tough enough to get out of situations it can't win. Make it a legitimate threat to crush infantry and flank bigger tanks, while being tough enough to make it out alive.

Rangers:
I'd really like to see them get another ability. They are just so bland for an elite unit. Things like Fire Up, Smoke Grenades, or even Camo would help differentiate them more from Paras.

Greyhound:
I'm told they were considering further changes to this, but its still not a very exciting unit. I personally don't think 50cals should have variable costs, so I'd actually revert that buff in exchange for a better timing. It doesn't need to hit as fast as a Stuart, but it'd be nice to see one before the 10 min marker.

Infantry Company:
Its a pipe dream, but I'd love to see the Halftrack replaced by Rangers here. It would give the new Rangers a doc with the 1919, and give it elite infantry to further differentiate it from Rifle Company.

Heavy Calvary:
Swap Smoke Barrage for the 240mm in Armor Company.
The doc actually isn't the worst thing in the world for 1v1s right now, but since the big complaint about it seems to be its performance in teamgames, I would suggest moving the 240mm Barrage out of Armor and into Heavy Cav. If it keeps the LeFH killing power in some form, it will at least bring something besides the Pershing and Rangers to team games.

Recon Support:
I get the idea behind the Raid Tactics change, but I'm just not sure how useful it would ever really be. The doc is loaded with munitions sinks already, and USF already has the ability to cap with its vehicles. Fast cap or vehicle capping abilities tend to be among the least powerful tools you can put into a doctrinal point, it needs to either provide more combat/utility, be balanced entirely around cooldown, or else dumped to make their Paratroopers to be more affordable.

i likes these ideas. especially infantry company is very good option to replace half track to Ranger.
Ranger needs more skill such as Camo or explosive.

Easy 8:
I just wonder why not playing around with a shell switch like we have it at 76mm and M4A3. Would be inline with AEF Sherman mechanics. Two E8s should be better at AI than M4A3/M36 combo if both loaded AI shells and better at AT if both loaded AT shells. They should be worse than M4A3/M36 combo if one E8 has AI shells activated and the other one AT shells. You are paying for a possible better performance in both sectors with the six seconds shell switch (that costs you a whole shooting cycle). So you have to play with foresight, you don't want to change in a middle of a fight. In addition you are paying for it with higher price of E8s of course.
At the E8 the shell switch could be a real choice. At M4A3 it isn't a real choice since you are using HE-shells about 90% of the time (AT performance of the M4A3 standard shell is rather weak and its use very situational to fend off an enemy tank with further AT support).

Greyhound:
As I said before I really would like to see a Vet1 recon mode or Vet1 flares to give it some mid to late game functionality. Just scrap dispensable canister shot ability to make place.

Raid Tactics
I like the change. But what about giving light vehicles/light tanks a 5-10 vision bonus while the ability is active? Would fit the doctrine and give someting more than just capping without having to decrew your tank/vehicle.

Recon Support:
I'm still missing an option to build/call-in Reserve Falls individually. Would give you way more versatility.

Mechanized:
Reverting combined arms nerf is appreciated. Still with the nerf to 76mm RoF and the removal of Dozer Blade at M4A3 I would advocate for Cromwell AoE at 76mm standard shells (= mini HE-shells). That way you really want to change between shells since AT shells are better now vs tanks already (because of recent standard shell RoF nerf) and standard shells would do something vs infantry in spite of the RoF nerf.

Continued Wishlist:


Easy 8:
I think we've seen 3 reworks proposed for this unit now, but none have really hit the mark for most people. I've seen at least 2 other people suggest that they emphasize its speed and toughness over the earlier Sherman variants, and I'm inclined to agree thats the direction to go.

Let it continue to bully P4s, but make it fast and tough enough to get out of situations it can't win. Make it a legitimate threat to crush infantry and flank bigger tanks, while being tough enough to make it out alive.

speed as we have seen it before, is game breaking. adding extra toughness with already best in class moving accuracy don't make sense for a 14 pop tank with repairs and smallish target size (21 v 20 of p4)

focus gunnery seems like very nice option instead

panther with pio runs up 23 pop, and it's unlike to counter such a faster and tougher e8...

Easy 8:
I just wonder why not playing around with a shell switch like we have it at 76mm and M4A3. Would be inline with AEF Sherman mechanics. Two E8s should be better at AI than M4A3/M36 combo if both loaded AI shells and better at AT if both loaded AT shells. They should be worse than M4A3/M36 combo if one E8 has AI shells activated and the other one AT shells. You are paying for a possible better performance in both sectors with the six seconds shell switch (that costs you a whole shooting cycle). So you have to play with foresight, you don't want to change in a middle of a fight. In addition you are paying for it with higher price of E8s of course.
At the E8 the shell switch could be a real choice. At M4A3 it isn't a real choice since you are using HE-shells about 90% of the time (AT performance of the M4A3 standard shell is rather weak and its use very situational to fend off an enemy tank with further AT support).

isn't that focus gunnery doing? its seem free even. it will dominate p4 and below units with 50 range and 100% pen.

it may not 100% pen panther at 50 range but it shouldn't....

Continued Wishlist:
[...]

a couple of good suggestions here and i agree for the most part.

Heavy Calvary:
Swap Smoke Barrage for the 240mm in Armor Company.
The doc actually isn't the worst thing in the world for 1v1s right now, but since the big complaint about it seems to be its performance in teamgames, I would suggest moving the 240mm Barrage out of Armor and into Heavy Cav. If it keeps the LeFH killing power in some form, it will at least bring something besides the Pershing and Rangers to team games.

while it's true that USF has plenty of alternative smoke abilities, this one stands out for me as it is rather flexible (i.e. not bound to a specific unit w/ activation range or tied to a side grade) and comes down very quickly. definitely one of the better abilities in heavy cav and i'd rather keep it instead of an off-map arty strike.

Recon Support:
I get the idea behind the Raid Tactics change, but I'm just not sure how useful it would ever really be. The doc is loaded with munitions sinks already, and USF already has the ability to cap with its vehicles. Fast cap or vehicle capping abilities tend to be among the least powerful tools you can put into a doctrinal point, it needs to either provide more combat/utility, be balanced entirely around cooldown, or else dumped to make their Paratroopers to be more affordable.

i'm curious to see how the new raid tactics plays out tbh, as the ability to cap with any vehicle whatsoever is certainly very strong. the most limiting factor for raid tactics used to be that in the lategame, where it can potentially make a difference, next to no lights are left on the battlefield to make use of it. now imagine a scenario where a group of shermans camp several contested vps at the same time while still being able to retaliate against infantry (unlike, for example, soviet tanks in secure mode). at least in a 1v1 where AT is not so abundant on every part of the map this can be pretty huge.

Mechanized:
76 nerfs came out of nowhere tbh. At this point I would consider a full rework.

i'd probably at least partially revert the ROF nerf to somewhere in the middle between the values in the beta and live. or, if the AT of the normal shells is what is deemed too strong, maybe reduce the penetration a bit to make ammo switching more of a necessity. alternatively, perhaps the mc4 could get part of its high ROF back with vet to make up for the lower base performance.

I think recon support would be greatly aided if the WC51 were added to it. It fits into the theme as a recon vehicle and as a good light vic.

isn't that focus gunnery doing? its seem free even. it will dominate p4 and below units with 50 range and 100% pen.

it may not 100% pen panther at 50 range but it shouldn't....

It is just another ability that confuses people somehow about the many buffs and debuffs and the delay. Keep it simple and add a shell switch which is a common Sherman mechanic with an automatic 6 seconds delay. One shell with decent AI-damage below performance of M4A3 HE-shell and medicore AT at best and one shell with maybe even 45-50 range and strong AT but next to pretty no AI at all.

With the shell switch both shells can be better in their segment as they can be if you have a combined shell that is used versus infantry and tanks alike. In addition you don't have to add the agility debuffs to balance it. The shell switch is already a nerf in comparison to a combined shoot. But this kind of "nerf" is a good one, because it is influenced by player skill, good recon and foresight. It adds a tactical layer.

One shell with decent AI-damage below performance of M4A3 HE-shell and medicore AT at best and one shell with maybe even 45-50 range and strong AT but next to pretty no AI at all.

Problem is this is basically the 76MM Sherman and the problem has always been being able to differentiate the flavors of Sherman. If 76MM is the "able to swap to better AT generalist" then E8 should probably be a bit different. I'm kind of surprised they haven't looked at Combat Veterancy bonuses and just give E8 better mobility ceiling to make it a sort of beefy M10. It feels lazy but I feel like some iteration of Cromwell's Hunt is in the kind of thing that E8 should have as brawler type tank except maybe instead of vehicle detection give it Armor Tracking on penetrating hits or improved moving accuracy(maybe overkill with tank commander).

Problem is this is basically the 76MM Sherman and the problem has always been being able to differentiate the flavors of Sherman. If 76MM is the "able to swap to better AT generalist" then E8 should probably be a bit different.

Should it? I don't think it would be that bad to have 76mm and E8 identical and have E8 be a more expensive, better armored and faster tank.