Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

I was able to use it at vet 0 on a fresh wc51. I think the arty barrage is a vet 1 ability.

WC's Step on it! is V1 ability but Barrage is Not Veteran Ability.
It is activated when Battalion Command post opened.

"Paratroopers - All Variants

All upgrades now shared amongst the Paratrooper varieties; mines and demo charges still stay unique to their respective variants."

Airborne is already one of the most poplar USF commander and does need to be buffed by allowing the bazooka upgrade to Paras. Neither does it need to overlap more with reckon.

Step might be need to close the power gap between the Reckon and Airborne commander. Thompson access to support paras might be in the right direction bazooka access in the wrong direction.

The main issue with support paras is the bundle with howitzer and one should consider removing that possibly making support paras call-in unit instead of paradroped one.

Step might be need to close the power gap between the Reckon and Airborne commander. Thompson access to support paras might be in the right direction bazooka access in the wrong direction.

How? They can just pick zooks up from the racks.

How? They can just pick zooks up from the racks.

If you need explanation between the difference of the bazooka upgrade and getting weapon from rack I suggest you install the game, load it and test.

If you need explanation between the difference of the bazooka upgrade and getting weapon from rack I suggest you install the game, load it and test.

By the time they arrive, rack will be open. Furthermore, if they arrive on the front lines, last I checked, the upgrade takes some time to complete... so stop with the BS "oh no, USF got buffed a bit" [screeeeeeech]

By the time they arrive, rack will be open. Furthermore, if they arrive on the front lines, last I checked, the upgrade takes some time to complete... so stop with the BS "oh no, USF got buffed a bit" [screeeeeeech]

If you want to have a debate in forum pls avoid this type of remarks.

You remark are also completely off mark.

1) This has little to do with buffing USF since it involves doctrinal unit, it has a lot more to with buffing one of the most popular USF commander which happen to be airborne.

2) Upgrade does not only mean the airborne paras get "free tech" (which one might or might not have teched but now one has even less reason to do so) bazookas, they also get:
Camo/first strike bonus
the ability to upgrade AT in the front-line without having to return to base

The fact that Ar Paras do not come with support make far more suitable for front-line drops.

In sort the change makes Ar Paras a move attractive and that support paras and will lead to even more dominance of airborne commander over reckon which is the opposite direction that this patch should be aiming. Airborne is the USF commander that need buffs the least.

I have no idea what all this about, if you don't play 1v1 all that much, with completely lack of 1v1 USF games. Camoed zooks are not that scary in 2v2.

"Paratroopers - All Variants

All upgrades now shared amongst the Paratrooper varieties; mines and demo charges still stay unique to their respective variants."

Airborne is already one of the most poplar USF commander and does need to be buffed by allowing the bazooka upgrade to Paras. Neither does it need to overlap more with reckon.

Step might be need to close the power gap between the Reckon and Airborne commander. Thompson access to support paras might be in the right direction bazooka access in the wrong direction.

The main issue with support paras is the bundle with howitzer and one should consider removing that possibly making support paras call-in unit instead of paradroped one.

I honestly don't see a reason to pick a recon over airborne. in current or preview commander patch. arty from pathfinder got nurfed & howi also got nurfed so there is no point of choosing recon. dropping AT or mg from airborne gives much more flexible tech to the USF(which they lack in default).

Giving bazooka upgrade to paratrooper...Well yes it is a buff since you don't need to pay extra money to unlock weapon lack, but rightful mind player won't choose to pickup bazooka with para.... Or do they...?

I honestly don't see a reason to pick a recon over airborne. in current or preview commander patch. arty from pathfinder got nurfed & howi also got nurfed so there is no point of choosing recon. dropping AT or mg from airborne gives much more flexible tech to the USF(which they lack in default).

Yep that is my point

Giving bazooka upgrade to paratrooper...Well yes it is a buff since you don't need to pay extra money to unlock weapon lack, but rightful mind player won't choose to pickup bazooka with para.... Or do they...?

Elite bazookas with cemo/first strike bonus in one of the best hand held AT weapons. It is worth it if one does not have enough AT.

By the time they arrive, rack will be open. Furthermore, if they arrive on the front lines, last I checked, the upgrade takes some time to complete... so stop with the BS "oh no, USF got buffed a bit" [screeeeeeech]

But doesn't the para zook upgrade come with camo??? you can't get that from rax.

I know other factions have their niche but in a fuel heavy game mode, Mechanized Company really shines to me.

The problem of the M4C (76mm) ist that it has the worst main gun of all generalist medium tanks in the game when it comes to AI. Even an E8 has a better main gun because of lower scatter values while having the same bad AOE profile. If you look at AOE profile and scatter values you will find AI values of generalist medium tank main guns in this order from godly to really bad:

M4A3 HE shells >> PZIV > T34/76 and T34/85 > Cromwell >> E8 > M4A3 standard shells = M4C
(wheras the difference between PZIV and T34 in both versions is neglectable since it is so small)

So the great RoF of M4C was already factored in at the AI performance of the main gun. Just lowering the ROF without touching AOE profile and scatter is just overkill. If you would lower the RoF and buff the AOE profil at least it would be worse vs tanks but the same versus infantry so that switching to HVAP would still make sense.

Hmmm thats odd because I enjoy using Mechanized in 4v4s mainly. Its always on my roster... They have an answer to almost everything and they have one of the best generalist mediums imo being the 76 Sherman.

The biggest nondoc roster holes of USF in 4vs4 are the absence of heavy tanks and heavy indirect fire options. Mechanized just can't fill them. That is the reason for Urban Assault Company (the better one of the two Calliope commanders) and Infantry Company (Priest+ToT) beeing the top picks. Heavy Cavalary is always close to that because of Pershing.

Maybe one should try to go the opposite way and make the two paras even more diverse.
For instance one could try some of the following change for support paras:
Removing airdrop
Lowering price
possibly reducing CP to 2
Make them tougher by reducing the target size
replacing the LMG upgrade with a "super BAR" upgrade

That would make them a unit that can stand up to PG at mid range while retaining decent far DPS and performing better at long range fights due to durability instead of DPS.

...

I do no think that your start about 76mm AP round are correct.

The AOE values are similar while the scatter value in not worse for 75mm AP Sherman (they are probably better).


It simply not that bad. I guess MMX will give more detail on the issue.

Maybe one should try to go the opposite way and make the two paras even more diverse.
For instance one could try some of the following change for support paras:
Removing airdrop
Lowering price
possibly reducing CP to 2
Make them tougher by reducing the target size
replacing the LMG upgrade with a "super BAR" upgrade

That would make them a unit that can stand up to PG at mid range while retaining decent far DPS and performing better at long range fights due to durability instead of DPS.

That would make them a glorified Rifleman. Not really diversifying the unit. The current change is fine as it is. Paratroopers with slight differences. New player friendly as well.

That would make them a glorified Rifleman. Not really diversifying the unit. The current change is fine as it is. Paratroopers with slight differences. New player friendly as well.

I have already explained that the new changes are not fine as it is because they give even less reason to get recon over airborne.

I am not sure why in your "glorified riflemen" with better grenades/weapons and not tech cost would be a bad thing in your opinion.

Even so you are entitled to your own opinion.

I do no think that your start about 76mm AP round are correct.

The AOE values are similar while the scatter value in not worse for 75mm AP Sherman (they are probably better).


It simply not that bad. I guess MMX will give more detail on the issue.

Thats the reason I mad a "=" between M4A3 standard shells and M4C standard shells, they are probably about the same. AOE is exactly the same for both, while 75mm has slightly lower scatter angle (1,5) and 76mm has slightly less max scatter (1,2). Both shells suck at killing infantry in comparison to other generalist tanks. E8 isn't very good either (same bad AOE) but has the best scatter values overall.

Either way it is not that important if M4A3 standard shells are slightly better or slightly worse, since M4A3 uses HE versus infantry, and that is clearly the best AI shell of all generalist tanks.

Still my argument stands, that the bad AOE of M4C is such bad because its RoF was so high and could buffed with combined arms by further 30%.

I do think M4C as well as E8 could both see a buff to their AOE profile, maybe just to Cromwell level. At 76mm this gets justified with double RoF nerf (so that is only a nerf versus vehicles/tanks in the outcome), at E8 this could help to make Rifle company somehow attractive.

Thats the reason I mad a "=" between M4A3 standard shells and M4C standard shells, they are probably about the same. AOE is exactly the same for both, while 75mm has slightly lower scatter angle (1,5) and 76mm has slightly less max scatter (1,2). Both shells suck at killing infantry in comparison to other generalist tanks. E8 isn't very good either (same bad AOE) but has the best scatter values overall.

Either way it is not that important if M4A3 standard shells are slightly better or slightly worse, since M4A3 uses HE versus infantry, and that is clearly the best AI shell of all generalist tanks.

Still my argument stands, that the bad AOE of M4C is such bad because its RoF was so high and could buffed with combined arms by further 30%.

One does not get the 76mm for fighting infantry, they have 75mm for that, but for fighting vehicles.

76mm is quite good at fighting vehicles with it penetration/accuracy values are above other tanks of its class.

Can the tank commander upgrade on the e8 be tried out to give a +10 pen?

Current e8 have 200/165/155 pen, +10 mean 210/175/165, make it closer to the commet in term of AT (210/190/170). This can make the tank commander more attractive as an AT oriented upgrade compare to the AI top MG upgrade.