Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

Armor Company
The other buffs have been nice but I think something more needs to be done with the M10 Wolverine. Currently it is still just a bit lackluster and struggles to see use over just regular shermans or jacksons. Someone else mentioned that it's target size was actually higher than medium tanks so it could be a reasonable way to buff it by lowering that to some amount.
Another idea is to look to add some new ability to give it more utility. Historically M10s usually carried smoke rounds so that could maybe something worth trying out. Make it similar to the command panzer IV smoke shot. It would add a lot of utility to the unit by letting them either create a sight blocker giving them time to flank the the enemy or to help it escape from bad situations.

Rifle Company
Combine riflemen field defense and infantry advanced equipment and then add the M3 halftrack. This commander really needs something else added to it and a halftrack would go really well into this role. A forward place for riflemen to heal, reinforce, and get transportation would help amplify the riflemens power which is what this doctrine is intended to do.

Recon Support
This commander only sees modest pick rates across all game modes and imo needs a nudge in it's power level. The greyhound does have a strange timing so an improvement there could help. This commander has also suffered from the pak howie nerf more than other doctrines maybe you could make that call in cheaper? Whatever the change is it would definitely help this commander to get a little bit of extra help.

Armor Company


Rifle Company


Recon Support

Highly doubt any substantial changes will follow for the USF. Wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for the proper commander update. I think this is probably it for the USF. No commander changes, just a couple of unit ones.

Highly doubt any substantial changes will follow for the USF. Wouldn't hold my breath, waiting for the proper commander update. I think this is probably it for the USF. No commander changes, just a couple of unit ones.

Well in the general thread there was mention of a bigger patch coming next week. So I hope we see some changes to US commanders in it.

Armor Company
The other buffs have been nice but I think something more needs to be done with the M10 Wolverine. Currently it is still just a bit lackluster and struggles to see use over just regular shermans or jacksons. Someone else mentioned that it's target size was actually higher than medium tanks so it could be a reasonable way to buff it by lowering that to some amount.
Another idea is to look to add some new ability to give it more utility. Historically M10s usually carried smoke rounds so that could maybe something worth trying out. Make it similar to the command panzer IV smoke shot. It would add a lot of utility to the unit by letting them either create a sight blocker giving them time to flank the the enemy or to help it escape from bad situations.

Rifle Company
Combine riflemen field defense and infantry advanced equipment and then add the M3 halftrack. This commander really needs something else added to it and a halftrack would go really well into this role. A forward place for riflemen to heal, reinforce, and get transportation would help amplify the riflemens power which is what this doctrine is intended to do.

Recon Support
This commander only sees modest pick rates across all game modes and imo needs a nudge in it's power level. The greyhound does have a strange timing so an improvement there could help. This commander has also suffered from the pak howie nerf more than other doctrines maybe you could make that call in cheaper? Whatever the change is it would definitely help this commander to get a little bit of extra help.

These are all pretty good. For the recon Support, they need to get rid of the howitzer drop and just make it the recon/at airborne troops. This ability is a bit expensive - it's reminiscent of the lend lease guards on a HT that was just dropped. Also dropping the greyhound to 3 CPs or making it unlockable by tech.

Armor Company
The other buffs have been nice but I think something more needs to be done with the M10 Wolverine. ...
Another idea is to look to add some new ability to give it more utility.

Rifle Company
Combine riflemen field defense and infantry advanced equipment and then add the M3 halftrack. This commander really needs something else added to it and a halftrack would go really well into this role. A forward place for riflemen to heal, reinforce, and get transportation would help amplify the riflemens power which is what this doctrine is intended to do.

Recon Support
This commander only sees modest pick rates across all game modes and imo needs a nudge in it's power level. The greyhound does have a strange timing so an improvement there could help. This commander has also suffered from the pak howie nerf more than other doctrines maybe you could make that call in cheaper? Whatever the change is it would definitely help this commander to get a little bit of extra help.

Armor Company - The M10 needs at least a buff to 50 range and something like target weak point. It makes no sense that it is more expensive than the Stug but shorter ranged. The HVAP rounds should be either a lot cheaper or a timed ability. It bounces too much without HVAP. One of the iterations of the balance team tried adding a barrage during one of the versions of a balance patch but removed it before the final patch. I don't think they would add that back. Historically, the M10 fired more HE than AP and was often used as mobile arty.

Recon Support - This has received several nerfs to a faction that wasn't meta anyway and makes me question the balance team's commitment to balance.
- IR pathfinder arty - It was one of the few reasons to use the commander or IR pathfinders. I understand that the balance team has been nerfing abilities that wiped units but this nerf should've been compensated by something - either a second model that wipes on crits or by making the squad bazooka experts.
- Cluster bombs - These received a previous nerf to their timing which was probably okay. However consider this statement from the balance team:
Previously, there were times it could fail to kill howitzers as the projectiles only had penetration on their AOE, but not on direct-hits.
Penetration adjusted from 0 to 60
AOE penetration to 40
One of the frustrating things about some of the patches is that it seems like there is more statements about Axis abilities "needing" to do something than Allied ones. Since the timing for the cluster bombs has been nerfed, it needs something like this:
Penetration adjusted from 0 to 30
AOE penetration to 20
(TBH - I don't know what the exact values are, but they should be raised enough to damage buildings and howitzers, it shouldn't one-shot anything like the 280 but it should take out about half of the health of a howitzer) Cluster bombs cost 110, plus typically 50 for the recon, so 160 munitions for only a little damage, while the 280 costs 200 plus a teammates 50-60 muntions and wipes most anything.

- Greyhound - Cluster shot used to be OP. It was nerfed into the ground, then received a token buff. It's still more of a noob trap ammo sink than anything else. It takes several seconds to shoot, requires the Greyhound to be stopped, has practically no range, and doesn't do that much damage even when it hits. Infantry can avoid it by simply moving. If it isn't going to be usable, replace it with something else.
- Airdropped Combat Group - With all of the nerfs to the pack howie, this would be much better if the pack howie was removed and the price dropped to 300/0.

Rifle Company - After testing the new Easy 8's, they're close to being okay but still seem like they should have a little bit better AI for their price, which is getting close to a Panther or Comet.
White Phos offmap - I'd rather see white phos replaced with the new improved 240mm arty. USF has a zillion ways to make smoke, but that doctrine will always be more of a liability if it doesn't have some way to deal with howitzers.
Fire Up - Costs 50% more than Assault Gren's sprint. It lasts longer but doesn't seem to give the same boost in speed. It really doesn't feel like it is worth a slot in its present state. A scoped rifle that gave a vision boost, m1919 or just about anything would be better than this.

USF General - It still needs a damage sponge tank. Making the Easy 8 a side tech of the major would go a long way to making it competitive. Rifle company could be compensated by giving it something that helped them stay on the field better like a heal ability and/or a M5.

I took a long break from this game and got back to playing it a few months ago. I was maining the armor company pretty hard because of the m10s. I think they had/have a big flank damage boost if you hit something which is where their utility comes from. Was this nerfed?

No it never had such a bonus. It just has Flanking Speed at Vet0 nowadays (it was Vet1 once) which gives it speed, accleration and -25% received acc plus the low moving acc penalty that all AEF tanks have and the britisch M10 (Achilles) has too. Since turret rotation doesn't get buffed by the ability it is pretty useless as a flanking tank. Far too slow turret rotation. Add the HVAP Vet1 ability which gives you penetration at a level a flanking tank wouldn't need, add the 50 range, the low hp, low armor and big target size and you get a tank that just shouldn't flank.

Main combat role: Use it as the small brother of your 60 range TD, keep at your frontline. Use HVAP and Flanking Speed to get badly hurt tanks before thy can withdraw.

The problem: StuG G is way better at that. While M10 hits Stug with a chance of 51% at long range, StuG G hits M10 at 88%. This is because of less accuracy and way bigger target size (22 to 17). You don't want a head to head battle. If you only had a decent flanking tank...

The solution: Just buy the 60 range TDs as always. For flanking with brits you should take Cromwell, it is better now after the patch. Best flanking tank of AEF is the 76mm with normal rounds if you ask me. If you get around enemy tanks you will burst out damage really fast while you are able to smoke PAK-walls.


If M10/Achilles should be a decent flanking tank:
- lower range to 40
- buff midrange accuracy
- drastically reduce target size to StuG level(this is not about realism, but balance)
- raise turret rotation speed ( it doesn't matter if it was hand winded)
- raise turret rotation with Flanking Speed ability even more so that it keeps up with greater speed


In addition I really would appreciate if infantry used snares would have a chance to miss that is based on target size/received acc. It is ridiculous that you get hit by a shrek lets say by only 50% because you are small and driving at crazy speed while a Faust still hits you automatically. Even driving around hard cover with your great speed doesn't help. A snared flanking tank is a dead flanking tank. Alternatively you could give units with Flanking speed abilities a short immunity versus snares. Some smoke ability would be the last option to get survivability. Just some thoughts.

Armor Company - The M10 needs at least a buff to 50 range

It has 50 range, same as StuG G or Panther ;-)

It has 50 range, same as StuG G or Panther ;-)

I must have looked it up wrong. I just checked Stein's sheet and it has 50 on it. I checked the penetration while I was looking it up. Even the HVAP rounds can bounce from a OKW PIV or any Panther. It seems like they should at least penetrate a PIV reliably.

Read the post, the guy said to remove the ability only on hypothetical 76mm with dozer upgrade. Also I highly doubt that balance team will implement it.
Mechanized is top picked doctrine in 1v1. So it makes sense to nerf it, as it was with Osttruppen and will be with KV-1.



AFAIK 76mm has better AI then E8 simply because of its innate Rate of Fire.

I know but Some of users keep saying Delete Dozer blade upgrade at 75mm sherman at both(Urban Assault and Mechanized) company. and These day. and You know. mechanized is clearly most-Picked company in 1v1 but also used pretty lot at 2v2 too.

and when reserve armor deleted as following Relic's Nerf-Flatting balance patch. no one will use it. it is not a resonable nerf but just killing a commander,

Dozer Blade makes some more survivality. but pay pretty lot resource and frankly no change against panther.
slightly increases its brawl ability but lost its mobility too.

Reserve armor is not OP at all, and it must be preserved.

Because of relative positioning, mainlines of each faction are designed to trade optimal in certain range.

For the same reason axis mainline infatry should not have an upgrade that allowed them to beat double bar riflemen at mid range.

That makes no sense. The upgrades allow for diverse build orders and different playstyles. If there are no m1919, USF will have no way to trade infantry in long range battles. and thats on top of a commander pick. In fact, all m1919 upgrades are doctrinal. You're just suggesting to remove basic functionality from commanders on the basis of the balance you made up in your head. Why shouldnt axis mainline infantry have an upgrade that allows them to trade and win at mid range?

You know mechanized is clearly most-Picked company in 1v1 but also used pretty lot at 2v2 too.

Where do you have the data from? We don't know about commander picks only about commander loadout picks. At 1vs1 Mechanized it is a third position. At all other game modes it is at last position.

Looks hardly like a meta dominant commander overall.

https://coh2stats.com/stats/daily/1617667200/4v4/usf

That makes no sense. The upgrades allow for diverse build orders and different playstyles. If there are no m1919, USF will have no way to trade infantry in long range battles. and thats on top of a commander pick. In fact, all m1919 upgrades are doctrinal. You're just suggesting to remove basic functionality from commanders on the basis of the balance you made up in your head. Why shouldnt axis mainline infantry have an upgrade that allows them to trade and win at mid range?

I did not suggest that M1919 should be removed from the commander they already exist in.

What I have said is that imo M1919 should not be added to more USF commanders.

I also suggested that USF could get an upgrade(or ability) that allowed them to use rifles with better far DPS.

I did not suggest that M1919 should be removed from the commander they already exist in.

What I have said is that imo M1919 should not be added to more USF commanders.

I also suggested that USF could get an upgrade(or ability) that allowed them to use rifles with better far DPS.

No what you said was "No more LMG on USF troops pls." and then when i asked why rifles shouldnt have them you said because its like axis that shouldnt have mid range upgrades??

No what you said was "No more LMG on USF troops pls." and then when i asked why rifles shouldnt have them you said because its like axis that shouldnt have mid range upgrades??

And that was in response to suggestions to add M1919 to another commander.

The post did not mean to removed the M1919 from the commanders it already exist but not to add in more commanders.

These are all pretty good. For the recon Support, they need to get rid of the howitzer drop and just make it the recon/at airborne troops. This ability is a bit expensive - it's reminiscent of the lend lease guards on a HT that was just dropped. Also dropping the greyhound to 3 CPs or making it unlockable by tech.

Another idea instead of getting rid of the Pak Howie would be to merge it into the Paratrooper. By that I mean turn it into an ability "Request Paradrop" where for 80 munitions your Paratrooper squad can drop in a Pak Howie as a castable ability. It ends up being the same cost as in live but it's infinitely more flexible because it lets you bank those 80 munitions for other things if you don't want the Pak Howie right away. Additionally you could do this for Airborne as well - merge HMG and AT Gun Paradrop into one passive ability and allow Paratroopers to call in either support weapon for a cost and then you could add one new ability to Airborne if you wanted to.