Newbie help on Heavy Cavalry tech choices

I started playing USF about a week ago and I really like the faction. So far I am mostly using the Airborne Commander, because it allows me to go Lieutenant and air-drop the AT-guns, which allows a very well-rounded and easy setup, similar to the Soviets. However, I would like to add the Heavy Cav. Commander to my repertoire and play with the Pershing and utilize riflemen better (with sandbags and mines etc.). However, the decision Lieutenant/Captain becomes much harder, and whatever I do, either MG or AT-gun will be missing. What is a common strategy in this situation? Go Lt. and use bazookas and Jackson as AT? Or go Cpt. and use AAHT for suppression and anti-blob defense? How do you guys handle this?

Welcome to USF!

Yes airborne commander is great for what you said.

What playlist? 1v1? 4v4?

As DevM says in his USF guide for 1v1, you only go Captain if things are not going great. Your AT should be covered by Stuart and Sherman and Rear Echelon w/ 2 Bazookas. You can back tech to Captain if they have fuel for too long and you don't have any AT vehicles.

Vs. OKW MG is more important.

Sandbag and mines come with the Infantry Company too, this commander is much more meta than Heavy Cav for 2v2+

If you go Lieutenant, your AT is the Stuart. Spamming Jacksons is a safe bet for 3v3+. For 1v1 you want an early M4 Sherman.

The idea is as USF you want to snowball, so the whole idea is you get your tanks out before the Axis do. So ideally you don't need an AT gun. But if things are getting hairy, then you can backtech to Captain for ATG.

TwistedTootsy is good to watch. As you can see, he didn't make an ATG, although he stole a Raketenwerfer.

. He likes to do 2 Rear Echelons with double Zooks. And he likes Cavalry Riflemen + Sherman Spam. This is for 1v1 obviously.

LT is very good and safe option. Making 1 or 2 M20s is great followed by a Stuart. I managed to get a +13 winstreak in 1v1 as USF by going Mechanized company for early Cavalry Riflemen and double m20 followed by a Stuart. Here's the important part: I win within 11 minutes usually, usually around ~7mins after I have 2 M20s and a Stuart in the field. This is ideal for USF.

Here's a video of what I am talking about: . I won at the 14 min mark but game was already decided at 10:07 and was gg.

It is hard to comeback as USF so its good to go all-in early game, mid-game.

I disagree with NorthWeapon on a couple of very important points.

DevM's guide is incredibly outdated. In Heavy Cav openings at least in duels, it's pretty common to still go Cpt. + ATG/Ambulance after whatever order of M20, 50 & Stuart, you prefer. I would actually argue tech skipping -now- is maybe a little dubious.

I usually go weapon racks after an M4A3 and follow that up with a Pershing, if you do want to try it out. Sometimes players will use two M57's and skip the M4A3 to go Pershing but I wouldn't advise it.

As well, I think Rangers are very very niche, and I would only consider deploying them as replacements if you lose a couple squads quickly / unexpectedly in the end game 'cos they're hard to reinforce. It can be a little awkward having only two squads in the opening so you can deploy them when you have 3cps which means you have to not only maximise your light vehicles, but get a little bit extra from them.

I would just caution, you're losing one of the best indirect fire units in the game, the calliope, in exchange for a... middling heavy tank. It doesn't mean that the opening is suspicious, or has been refuted, but its not the easiest way to play.

Commander selection is based on the opening.

I like an aggressive opening, like Lit, 50cal, Stuart, so I will choose Airborne company, it has pf with better vision and MG&ATG drop.

Cap is more conservative opening, it can be good against OST, howitzer can be useful against OST MG and Gd.

But against OKW, MG is so important, and ATG drop if OKW goes for Puma.

Pershing as a late game heavy tank, is not good as Tiger or Tiger Ace, especially if they have Panther V or double Pak40.

Instead of a late game, USF may play more aggressively in mid-late game with timing, weapon rack, Sherman (especially again OKW blobbing) and Jackson.

And I agree with snowball for USF, therefore, you need to know your strong timing units.

Just some advice from newbie USF.

Welcome to USF!

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Thank you so much! For the moment I am mostly playing team games, so 2v2 / 3v3 / 4v4. They obviously tend to get more chaotic, but I feel less pressure to perform and can take it more lightly and thus learn better. In these modes however, some M57 AT is needed more often than not, because there will be tons of tanks at some point. But I understand, Commander choice varies heavily from game mode to game mode. Thanks for your tips and I´ll check out the videos. I´ll try to to apply what you said. Also, I too found the M20 very useful to apply pressure really fast and break through MG defended positions.

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Thank you, too! Interestingly, this is also what I found to work reasonably well (at least in my low elo), just teching everything and not skipping. The Shermans and Jacksons obviously come delayed, but I can imagine, that the more players are in a game, the less important swift pressure through quick tanks becomes? What I mean by that, a breakthrough on your side of the map will not result in winning the game immediately. Also, having access to MG and(!) the howitzers is helpful in the 4v4-random-chaos. Thanks for your advice and input, I´ll test this further. What do you think about Rangers as AT unit with triple zooks?

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Thanks mate! From what I´ve seen in the first few games, I agree. I admit, I play the Pershing just for style points and because I simply like it, often I actually dont even use it. So yeah, that might be a bit dubious, and I too feel, that the Airborne Commander, especially in 1v1 or 2v2 really supports the "apply pressure quickly" - plan with MG, Stuarts, M20 and so on to get a good early/mid game and potentially win. I do want to improve and take it at least a little competitively, but I´m not trying to overdo it (top 300 or whatever), so I guess, even a suboptimal commander (that I enjoy though) will do.

Ranger with 3xZook are a extremely good deterant, costly but very good. And it works with both opening, using Captain's On me on Ranger with Zook to chase down a Pz4 is for the least satisfaying.

When in doubt copy DevM and TwistedTootsy. Also OrangePest recently says Mechanized Company with Cav Rifle rush and m20 rush is OP.

I am just saying what I learned from 3 top players. I also think DevM's guide is not outdated.

Hey redfox, you said that you mostly played 2v2+. So I can give you advice from my recent experiences playing (it's been a while).

The way 2v2+ tends to be designed is that most firefights tend to be almost choke points, veto the maps that are less then 512x by 512x. You live and die by flanking and spreading out. The issue seems to be that as USF you will never win a race to the fuel point simply because you will not beat sturms nor a well placed MG. Instead, attempt to go for cut off points and harass until your typical opening of your 3rd riflemen appears and you can win the fight, before you'll be outgunned simply do to the "forced" fights of 2v2+. If you can spread out to different heavy cover and pinch, you'll win.

I need to do way more testing but in my opinion, Heavy Calvary seems to be the most viable choice in 2v2+. Removal of smokes on rifles means you can plop smoke in a pinch, sandbags if used properly help you win engagements, Rangers can compete against German Elite Infantry, and the Pershing is basically a tiger with Panther speed/health.

What I typically do so far in team games, is I go Rifle, Rifle, Rifle. At that point I try to research my LT and then smoke. Then when he comes out I go for a high impact play with Echelon smoke and LT smoke so my rifles can get in close to MGS or move to better closer cover. One MG is pretty safe and feels mandatory against OKW. After that it depends on if you are winning or losing. A Stuart nullifies their LV presence and can push your advantage but if you lose it you are SUPER behind. Zookes on Ech is pretty mandatory for a just in case.

By now hopefully you'd of gone Major for that forward retreat point so you can keep applying pressure. A sherman is fine cuz at this time they could get a P4 but a sherman doesn't perform that badly against a P4 especially if you have zooks sitting in the back to guard it. You won't have 12 CP yet for a pershing (theoretically) so duking it out a bit and saving for one is a good idea. If Pershing is just too far out of reach and your Sherman is dead or you just feel too much armor is present you may want to backtech for an AT gun(If you stole one, don't bother backteching). When Pershing arrives, if well micro'd, you'll be fine that thing is insane. Jacksons + Pershing is the best of all worlds as the Pershing can wipe squads by itself.

You'll notice I never brought up Rangers. Well, they come in rather late at 3CP and you don't really want to sit on your thumbs as a USF player. If you lost one squad of rifles replace it with a Ranger squad. Plus in team games it usually goes to late game and if they have brumbars, tigers, KTs, ect doesn't matter how good your infantry is it WILL get wiped eventually. They are really good though if you happen to lose a rifle squad.

I also think DevM's guide is not outdated.

It was written in 2015, I helped proofread it lmaoo

It still states that the Cpt. can have Zooks, and the Stuart is in that tier hahah, not to mention it's straight up missing commanders. That isn't to say there isn't useful information inside still, but without that context or the faction knowledge it might be confusing.

I think you two are referring to different guides. I guess NorthWeapon was talking about DevMs video guide on Youtube, which came out just recently, while you are talking about the written guide in this forum. Could that be the case?

@Marked Raptor: Thanks man, that is some valuable information, too! I´ll keep that in mind, thanks for the strategy and build explanation. That helps!

I think you two are referring to different guides. I guess NorthWeapon was talking about DevMs video guide on Youtube, which came out just recently, while you are talking about the written guide in this forum. Could that be the case?

Oh wow, well you solved it. Yes I'm referring to DevMs USF guide on his YouTube channel

That was funny

Disregard the rest of the thread here comes the truth

Your question pretty much summarizes the key dilemma of the american faction.

There's 4 main solutions:

1. Go Airborne. I personally play Airborne almost all the time because I'm not good enough with tanks to omit At-Guns from my builds.

2. Go both Captain and Lieutenant. If you do this it's pretty much always better to go LT first because Stuart and 50cal provide more value early on than any captain unit. You could also consider saving the Vehicle tech and not going stuart at all. However that's not recommended in the vast majoriy of cases because it will make your opponents light vehicles infinitely stronger.

3. Rely on bazookas and snowballing. Snowballing in this context means gaining an early advantage and carrying it over in the next phase of the game by exploiting the advantage to gain another advantage etc. This is neessary because without AT-Guns you rely on your tanks for primary AT. So you always have to stay somewhat ahead in terms of Tank firepower. The main issue here is that the Sherman is terribly unreliable at fighting P4s and much more cost efficient when being allowed to use its HE shells. Going Jackson first is an even worse idea because you lose too much AI firepower. This is why most people who play without ATGuns (like DevM) use the Mechanized doctrines which offers the 76mm Sherman. The 76 is the most cost efficient medium tanks when it comes to fighting other mediums. Obviously the pershing does not fill that gap because it comes way too late so you'd actually have to rely on sherman/jackson+bazookas which is tough and not recommended.

4. Go captain only. AAHT has the best power/timing ratio in the game I think. But it requires a lot of babysitting both in terms of micro and support units. One small fuck up and it dies to 2 pak shots. 222s can catch it off guard and subsequently shred it. Overall I'd say not worht it for a beginner.

2. is probably best if you want to try heavy cav. 3 rifles -> Ambu -> Vehicle Tech -> Stuart -> most of the time captain (depending on map control and opponents tech, if you have a big fuel advantage you should skip captain and tech sherman regardless of what I've said above) -> ATGun (if needed, in the late game you should have 2 ATguns in most scenarios) -> Major -> depending on CPs sherman -> Pershing

Disregard the rest of the thread here comes the truth

Your question pretty much summarizes the key dilemma of the american faction.

There's 4 main solutions:

1. Go Airborne. I personally play Airborne almost all the time because I'm not good enough with tanks to omit At-Guns from my builds.

2. is probably best if you want to try heavy cav. 3 rifles -> Ambu -> Vehicle Tech -> Stuart -> most of the time captain (depending on map control and opponents tech, if you have a big fuel advantage you should skip captain and tech sherman regardless of what I've said above) -> ATGun (if needed, in the late game you should have 2 ATguns in most scenarios) -> Major -> depending on CPs sherman -> Pershing

GiaA brings up a good point in that technically some things would require you to have the skill to pull them off. Having no AT gun for instance is rather difficult if you are new to the game simply because learning to do without requires micro/game knowledge. I'd argue that if you intend to play USF however, they are a pretty unforgiving faction when it comes to mistakes.

So far the reason I hate teching to captain is simply because I feel like I always am teching something I need asap. List of mandatory things for USF are
1. Grenades
2. Weapon Racks
3. Light vehicle research
4. Ambulance

and it feels like you need all of these as soon as possible, so adding a captain onto that just makes things rougher. Plus imo the restructuring of LT/CPT was a huge mistake but alas.

Oh wow, well you solved it. Yes I'm referring to DevMs USF guide on his YouTube channel

That was funny

xDDD

sorry brother

Quick update, I seem to be getting better (thanks to your tips!), especially regarding early game play and dynamic pressure (gotten quite a few early wins through aggressive riflemen play, early Stuart/M20 and so on). Usually though I team up with my brother, and in general we both are still big noobs. If you want, check out this game (my brother is the Brit). My opponent let me win the first engagements and then allowed me to even walk over and help out on the other side of the map (I only blobbed so hard because it worked, I swear! ), which is why we were winning most of the time.
However, at around minute 29 the opponent used his "Close the pocket" ability (Encirclement doctrine) and wiped my complete infantry and team weapons. Can you please explain to me, how to counter/react to this? Am I actually supposed to leave all of the frontline sectors and return to base while the ability is active? I have never encountered this, that's why I got hit so hard. We only managed to come back because they didnt capitalize on it and I was floating MP big time.

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  redfox pumpernigga29

  K I D Z Bella Ciao

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  Complete Wipe by 'Close the pocket' ability

  by: redfox map: Einhoven Country

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I also appreciate general feedback, if someone actually wants to watch the replay.
PS: The 2nd Stuart was a misclick, actually wanted to get an Ambulance...

Cheers!

However, at around minute 29 the opponent used his "Close the pocket" ability (Encirclement doctrine) and wiped my complete infantry and team weapons. Can you please explain to me, how to counter/react to this? Am I actually supposed to leave all of the frontline sectors and return to base while the ability is active? I have never encountered this, that's why I got hit so hard. We only managed to come back because they didnt capitalize on it and I was floating MP big time.

Unfortunately, most of the times it's already too late to retreat if the enemy activated it already. Close the Pocket basically deletes your entire army if the enemy manages to pull it off. Only vehicles have a decent chance to survive if you pull them out fast. But yes ofc try the same with infantry and hit the retreat button asap.


The best way to counter this ability is by not allowing your enemy to pull it off. This means once you realized that he picked this commander: Immediately plant fuel/ammo caches on the 2 or 3 points that cut off the entire map. Pay attention for hidden stormtroopers in the area and the health of the caches

Unfortunately, most of the times it's already too late to retreat if the enemy activated it already. Close the Pocket basically deletes your entire army if the enemy manages to pull it off. Only vehicles have a decent chance to survive if you pull them out fast. But yes ofc try the same with infantry and hit the retreat button asap.


The best way to counter this ability is by not allowing your enemy to pull it off. This means once you realized that he picked this commander: Immediately plant fuel/ammo caches on the 2 or 3 points that cut off the entire map. Pay attention for hidden stormtroopers in the area and the health of the caches

What is the requirement for him to pull it off? In the description it only says, that frontline and cut-off sectors are getting bombarded. However, frontline sectors exist at any time in the game, that's dangerous enough I think. How exactly does this ability work?

What is the requirement for him to pull it off? In the description it only says, that frontline and cut-off sectors are getting bombarded. However, frontline sectors exist at any time in the game, that's dangerous enough I think. How exactly does this ability work?

frontline sectors in this case here are the territory sectors that are the closest to the enemy but not cut off, those get hit by light mortar fire only. This was done so the ability always does something and it only happens if you are not cut-off, however ofc it's not worth the cost at all as the ability only works at ~5% effectiveness here.


100% effectiveness of the ability kicks in if the sector is cut-off. Basically your units get hit by dozens of stuka dive bombs, artillery grenades and panzerwerfer barrages in extremely quick succession until everything is dead. The damage output can be so big that I've seen fullhealth ISU-152's getting destroyed within 5 seconds

Woah, that's crazy. Does cut-off mean neutral or occupied by the opponent? Because the commander also has this neutralizing-ability, that would be a bit crazy ...

Woah, that's crazy. Does cut-off mean neutral or occupied by the opponent? Because the commander also has this neutralizing-ability, that would be a bit crazy ...

neutralizing a point is enough to cut adjacent sectors off, the cutoff point does not need to be occupied by the enemy

a sector is cutoff when it is occupied by you but not connected to your base HQ