Snip
Maybe find a video where the user hasn't been banned for cheating.
Brummbar performance
13 May 2021, 13:12 PM
#141
Posts: 682
Maybe find a video where the user hasn't been banned for cheating.
/s
13 May 2021, 13:17 PM
#142
Posts: 1660
It's not strictly a defensive tank, its a powerful breakthrough tank that can reliably win a push with just one shot, similar to when the OKW Tiger 1 was OP as fuck a few patches ago, it would roll up and one shot everything. Here the brum isn't as hard to pen as a Tiger but all it needs is to peak, shoot, retreat, repeat and it can do so very, very quickly.
The other tanks that are similar on axis are the Sturmtiger and that is balanced in that it has a long reload, can only fire once before having to reload and is more obvious that a sweating pedofile in a playground, the AVRE is similar.
The mobility and clunky 'issues' are really a problem when it is able to perform like it does, similar to how Ele and Jag not having a rotatable turret and being small isnt an issue due to the damage output and the range. You can see the Brum performing in this video from 4:45 onwards:
(Timestamp) https://youtu.be/wfeXzGUN7PE?t=284
That's more typical to a game scenario, none of this statistics and ideal scenario situation that people cruch on. Games are dynamic, full of shot blockers, sight blockers, flanks, arty, pushes and panicks. It's never just a long corridor with a Brum slowly approaching 2 AT guns undefended to which the brum loses.
If you've gone mediums you're screwed because you cant pen it reliably, you can't chase it because its almost always backed up by AT guns and more likely than not, fausts so you are almost forced to wait for (as UKF) Comets and that gives you no advantage at all as you've given up a lot of crucial tank time by the time the comet comes, and whats a good counter to a comet? A Panther and what tier does the Panther come in....
If its to stay as it is, at least allow mediums to pen it reliably and maybe up the health to compensate for this.
The AT gun was moving slow because cloaked, the player used a FOW cheat
13 May 2021, 13:48 PM
#143
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
So give the panther HE shot like Sherman and we can then Talk about nerfing the Brumbar.
Did ZiS got suppressive fire when maxim was being nerfed?
Did T34 got increased pen when SU-85 was nerfed?
Did rifles got buffed when PACK howi and scott were nerfed?
Do you already see how retardedly stupid point you made?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 May 2021, 14:07 PM
#144
Posts: 770
Brummar to much often wipes infantry and support weapons with two shots.
Good then its doing its job
13 May 2021, 14:32 PM
#145
Posts: 5279
Tried reading the rest of the thread.. Nits a cesspit so I'm posting blind.
Brumbar is great at its job, a job it's needed to do. Allied TDs are more than a match for it and that's what you are supposed to use against it. It hits like a truck at the cost of short range. It's a late game AI vehicle. What do you expect from it? If axis can deal with isu and kv-2 the allies are capable of dealing with the brumbar
Brumbar is great at its job, a job it's needed to do. Allied TDs are more than a match for it and that's what you are supposed to use against it. It hits like a truck at the cost of short range. It's a late game AI vehicle. What do you expect from it? If axis can deal with isu and kv-2 the allies are capable of dealing with the brumbar
#stalinwept
13 May 2021, 20:10 PM
#146
Posts: 472
I always get surprised when axis player complain about "high armored" tanks like churchill(240), kv-8(260)kv-1(270) when the comparison is one of the highest armored(260 -> 312) tank.
From my experience(including game play & pro players replay) brummbar has very high potential with ground attack. It's not uncommon thing to see brummbar toggling "hold fire" & do manual attack only. It deals tons of dmg per each shot. No wipe with one shot to the full health inf., but good enough to send them back to the base.
Allies have to spot the opportunity to flank it to catch the back. But it's not that easy. Especially when 2at + brum is common combination.
I'd say nerfing mobillity or a AOE or reduce armor(312 is.... ridiculous. Even 6 pounder has only 60% chance at long range) a little will do. IMO a bit overpowered in current status.
From my experience(including game play & pro players replay) brummbar has very high potential with ground attack. It's not uncommon thing to see brummbar toggling "hold fire" & do manual attack only. It deals tons of dmg per each shot. No wipe with one shot to the full health inf., but good enough to send them back to the base.
Allies have to spot the opportunity to flank it to catch the back. But it's not that easy. Especially when 2at + brum is common combination.
I'd say nerfing mobillity or a AOE or reduce armor(312 is.... ridiculous. Even 6 pounder has only 60% chance at long range) a little will do. IMO a bit overpowered in current status.
14 May 2021, 00:19 AM
#147
Posts: 556
I always get surprised when axis player complain about "high armored" tanks like churchill(240), kv-8(260)kv-1(270) when the comparison is one of the highest armored(260 -> 312) tank.
Allies have to spot the opportunity to flank it to catch the back. But it's not that easy. Especially when 2at + brum is common combination.
I'd say nerfing mobillity or a AOE or reduce armor(312 is.... ridiculous. Even 6 pounder has only 60% chance at long range) a little will do. IMO a bit overpowered in current status.
Comparing Churchill and Brumbarr is plain wrong. One can deal with tanks, has 1400 HP and for some unknown reason has 180 rear armor. Not only those, but the unit can repair its own criticals, throw grenades and put smoke for infantry.
And all you see is the 312 front armor and infantry killing power of Brumbarr while the unit can't literally do anything other than those and still has the same HP with T34/85. Sole purpose of the unit is raw power with 0 utility.
If you agree on giving Brumbarr more HP for less armor every OST player would blindly take that deal.
Grens are finally good.
14 May 2021, 01:39 AM
#148
Posts: 472
One can deal with tanks
You are speaking of 165 fuel tank that has same pen with Cromwell. Off the topic, but Churchill is nothing but a hp-pig with too much pop cap that it's hardly usable.
And all you see is the 312 front armor and infantry killing power of Brumbarr while the unit can't literally do anything other than those
And does too well. Thought that was the point is it not?
It bounces 2/3 of the shots from the Cromwell & 2/5 from the 6-pounder once it gets that + armor.
With properly used(ground attack), single shot can make full-hp inf. force retreat. and 2~3 shot we see potential wipe here. No stock tank can do such thing other than Brumbarr.
It's not hard to see OST going straight to the Brumbarr with 2 at ready even in pro-level plays (recent 2v2 tournaments).
14 May 2021, 01:54 AM
#149
Posts: 556
You are speaking of 165 fuel tank that has same pen with Cromwell. Off the topic, but Churchill is nothing but a hp-pig with too much pop cap that it's hardly usable.
Penetration is irrelevant for Brumbarr since it has a slow projectile that will 9/10 miss the moving tanks. Off topic again, but Churchill is still a gimmick unit that is 165 fuel and forces a Panther to be able to deal with it since everything else just bounces off even from its rear.
And does too well. Thought that was the point is it not?
It bounces 2/3 of the shots from the Cromwell & 2/5 from the 6-pounder once it gets that + armor.
With properly used(ground attack), single shot can make full-hp inf. force retreat. and 2~3 shot we see potential wipe here. No stock tank can do such thing other than Brumbarr.
It's not hard to see OST going straight to the Brumbarr with 2 at ready even in pro-level plays (recent 2v2 tournaments).
It should do too well. Unit is literally a specialist. Its cost and timing are also at the end of the spectrum. You are paying 150 fuel only to fight infantry. It is the Obersoldaten of the tanks. Has one and only one job, and it should do it too well with that cost. Any nerfs to current Brumbarrs combat performance and OST late game is certainly hammered since the unit is just so much of a reliance considering OST is designed around somewhat weak infantry that can not go toe to toe with late game allied infantry and Brum just addresses that.
Edit: However, I can agree on something like a scatter nerf on the bunker busting barrage which is way too accurate IMO.
Grens are finally good.
14 May 2021, 03:31 AM
#150
Posts: 1794
bunker buster was already recently nerf. brumbar is as moderate as it can be today. it needs to deal with late game allies blob and very vulnerable to 60TD or dual 60ATG.
it has a high alpha damage that need manual fire mostly. the Churchill and KV tanks are more hardy and dual purpose than brumbar. shrugs
it has a high alpha damage that need manual fire mostly. the Churchill and KV tanks are more hardy and dual purpose than brumbar. shrugs
14 May 2021, 06:14 AM
#151
Posts: 472
forces a Panther to be able to deal with it since everything else just bounces off even from its rear.
You are exactly proving my point here. You are crying out "oh my god! that tank bounces everything with that 240/180 armor! We need PANTHER!". In reality, Churchill only has 6 higher armor than axis medium tank. (vet.2 OST p4 or stock OKW p4).
Should we go to create another thread complaining axis medium tank has so high armor that allies need TD to deal with them? Please feel free to do so if you want.
My personal theory here is that axis player simply don't experience much of the bounces from the shot, that if allies tank actually does, it just leave some marks in their heart.
14 May 2021, 06:16 AM
#152
Posts: 472
snip
14 May 2021, 06:21 AM
#153
Posts: 556
Snip.
I think you just don't get my point and say that I am "crying out" like an un-communicative person would do. So I'm leaving you there to not further derail this topic and with thoughts about how high the 180 REAR ARMOR is when combined with 1400 HP mister.
Grens are finally good.
14 May 2021, 06:24 AM
#154
Posts: 472
I think you just don't get my point and say that I am "crying out" like an un-communicative person would do. So I'm leaving you there to not further derail this topic and with thoughts about how high the 180 REAR ARMOR is when combined with 1400 HP mister.
Don't forget to bring Panther to deal with 180 armor with you.
14 May 2021, 06:41 AM
#155
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
If Brumbar weren't OP we wouldn't see so many Ostheer players rushing for it even if their opponent already has a medium tank on the field.
14 May 2021, 06:54 AM
#156
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
You are exactly proving my point here. You are crying out "oh my god! that tank bounces everything with that 240/180 armor! We need PANTHER!". In reality, Churchill only has 6 higher armor than axis medium tank. (vet.2 OST p4 or stock OKW p4).
Should we go to create another thread complaining axis medium tank has so high armor that allies need TD to deal with them? Please feel free to do so if you want.
My personal theory here is that axis player simply don't experience much of the bounces from the shot, that if allies tank actually does, it just leave some marks in their heart.
You need a TD to stop a medium because an ATG can't damage the Churchill quickly enough before it will get wiped. That's why Axis usually need a TD to fight it. The Panther is the only thing that can reliably deal with the Churchill without being threatened by it itself. Amassing e.g. StuGs works as well, but people usually go for Panthers for scaling.
14 May 2021, 06:56 AM
#157
Posts: 472
Maybe find a video where the user hasn't been banned for cheating.
it's from the recent ongoing 2v2. Maybe you can find a Eng. version.
Match shows fast Brum + early stuka.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1016595253?t=4h24m19s
Funny thing is, the next match(where prev. allies playing axis) axis uses exact same tactic.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1016595253?t=4h24m39s
Or the final match (not early brum but shows always-on "hold fire" with ground attack)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1016595253?t=6h46m41s
Kinda proves my point in other thread how early-stuka is efficient especially with AT.
14 May 2021, 07:01 AM
#158
Posts: 472
You need a TD to stop a medium because an ATG can't damage the Churchill quickly enough before it will get wiped. That's why Axis usually need a TD to fight it. The Panther is the only thing that can reliably deal with the Churchill without being threatened by it itself. Amassing e.g. StuGs works as well, but people usually go for Panthers for scaling.
You are right on the matter (cause having p4 vs Churchill is in favor of Churchill obviously) the reason original author claimed was differ.
since everything else just bounces off even from its rear.
I wanted to point out irony of clamming 240 armor as "bounces off everything" (180 in fact, because he claimed "rear") when we are speaking about one of the highest(312) armor unit in this thread.
14 May 2021, 07:18 AM
#159
Posts: 556
You are right on the matter (cause having p4 vs Churchill is in favor of Churchill obviously) the reason original author claimed was differ.
I wanted to point out irony of clamming 240 armor as "bounces off everything" (180 in fact, because he claimed "rear") when we are speaking about one of the highest(312) armor unit in this thread.
Are you illiterate ? I have never claimed that it bounces off everything. I said "Everything less than a Panther" since AT guns are out of the equation against Churchill. Have fun against Churchills with 50 Range 185 penetration StuGs against 180 REAR armor.
Grens are finally good.
14 May 2021, 07:25 AM
#160
Posts: 472
Have fun against Churchills with 50 Range 185 penetration StuGs against 180 REAR armor.
Um.... you do realize 185 pen. against 180 armor means 100% pen. right...? Or is it me that gets everything wrong again?
However, stug has 170 in long-range. So technically 94.4% of the shots penetrate. How sad would it be to see 5 shots get deflected out of 100.
p.s. even stug reaches 182 armor once it gets to vet.2. More fun part is that Churchill only has 57.7% chance of pen. in long range against stug from then. with even shorter range 40 What the...
p.s.2 even vet.0 stug has 25% chance of deflection. which is similar to stug shooting Churchill front armor (29.17%).
Everything is under assumention of(AFAIK) penetration(%) = pen/armor * 100
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