Brummbar performance

Yap dont forget allies also have strong AT rockets strafe. and brumbar has to hit larger infantry squad.

Therefore the concentration on brumbar fast decrewing ATG is misguided. Imo it is as fast decrewing as centuar, kv8, comet, even shermans.

my brumbar is used more to clear allies dig in mg or sandbag infantry. or to protect my paks as they fight against 60TD or simply a deterrance against allies infantry blob play.

ATG is 2nd secondary for brumbar, only when i see allies ATG are too far unprotected then i try to move in.


Also im sure manual firing brumbar on the move, will cause the shot to under/over hit most of the time

A doctrinal ability should not dictate the balance of a stock unit. If that were the case, we could nerf the Brummbar to the ground because Ostheer already has frag bombs to deal with infantry blobs.

But back to the point: I don't have any tests or data, but I am fairly certain that only a KV2 can reliably deal with an ATG. A Comet won't wipe the ATG from range 20-40 without getting hit hard himself. The phosphorus can deal some damage, that is true though. A Brummbar can do it though. Usually two shots are sufficient. The main point however was that you cannot reliably counter the Brummbar with anything else than a TD. Mediums are unreliable, ATGs will heavily bleed you or get wiped and bazookas are probably the worst thing to get in this case.

Moving will increase the horizontal scatter from 2,5 to 5, which allows for misses but is still a lot better than any other tank even while standing. Angular scatter goes up from 6-12 which is about average compared to other vehicles. Angular scatter takes less effect though on smaller ranges, and the Brummbar excels if it can get close. What makes it miss is rather the Brummbar targeting a model at the edge plus the travel time.

it is real hard nerf. when against 60td with almost 2x range, and faster rof and speed.

bunker buster cost muni too

maybe you don't a-move your infantry blob? spread them out? i mean ost 5 men grens got a huge nerf, what's left to hold back allies blob rush? lmg grens? lol

sounds like you just want balance to continue favor terminator allies blob supported with ATG wall

Stop projecting how you play on others. If you seriously have issues dealing with allied infantry no wonder you're screeching so hard about the Brummbar being fine and "60 range TDs". Brummbar is even more responsive and effective than Sherman 105 even though the latter has a turret and is a doctrinal unit. It's more survivable too so not having a rotating turret doesn't do much bad for it. I'd much rather have a Brummbar than a Sherman 105 when playing as US. I won't mind if the StuPa won't get changed however - at least playing as Ostheer will still be an easy point and click game.

Stop projecting how you play on others. If you seriously have issues dealing with allied infantry no wonder you're screeching so hard about the Brummbar being fine and "60 range TDs". Brummbar is even more responsive and effective than Sherman 105 even though the latter has a turret and is a doctrinal unit. It's more survivable too so not having a rotating turret doesn't do much bad for it. I'd much rather have a Brummbar than a Sherman 105 when playing as US. I won't mind if the StuPa won't get changed however - at least playing as Ostheer will still be an easy point and click game.

yes agreed i dont think brumbar needs more nerfs, anymore is just punishing for the already widely accepted punishing faction for ost player

Give the allied players what they want and nerf ostheer to the ground, I bet they will start crying to nerf okw next

Only if the brummbär gets the same Range

T70 and ostwind have it as well, so do all general mines. It woudnt be a problem if the brum gets it imo.

T70 and ostwind have it as well, so do all general mines. It woudnt be a problem if the brum gets it imo.

the fact that other units have it doesn't automatically make it a good solution. it's highly counter-intuitive and, as far as i'm concerned, should be some kind of last-resort attempt if other AoE adjustments don't work for whatever reason. i don't think the brummbär needs an AoE overhaul anyway, a bit less acceleration would probably be enough to keep it from escaping sticky situations where it normally shouldn't.

A doctrinal ability should not dictate the balance of a stock unit. If that were the case, we could nerf the Brummbar to the ground because Ostheer already has frag bombs to deal with infantry blobs.

But back to the point: I don't have any tests or data, but I am fairly certain that only a KV2 can reliably deal with an ATG. A Comet won't wipe the ATG from range 20-40 without getting hit hard himself. The phosphorus can deal some damage, that is true though. A Brummbar can do it though. Usually two shots are sufficient. The main point however was that you cannot reliably counter the Brummbar with anything else than a TD. Mediums are unreliable, ATGs will heavily bleed you or get wiped and bazookas are probably the worst thing to get in this case.

Moving will increase the horizontal scatter from 2,5 to 5, which allows for misses but is still a lot better than any other tank even while standing. Angular scatter goes up from 6-12 which is about average compared to other vehicles. Angular scatter takes less effect though on smaller ranges, and the Brummbar excels if it can get close. What makes it miss is rather the Brummbar targeting a model at the edge plus the travel time.

imo we should have some consideration for doctrine ability and even bulletin boosters. in general speak

there is reason why allies AT rockets are so strong.

but still this topic suggestion have run its course, next better topic

It one or at worst case, two shots ALL infantry units in game with exceptionally high accuracy.
It does not need to be long in combat to deliver a blow making a difference.

I recommend re-watching casts of last 2v2 tournament, where it completely dominated allied infantry and ATGs if you have doubts about its performance.

No shame, noice one boss. That'll show 'em.

Again, just lower the EHP so where it takes one less hit to get blown up. ez fix.

Brummy still gets to be one of the biggest shock units, keeping its speed to help being a casemate, but is no longer a complete soaking tank either.

was the brummbar nerfed?

was the brummbar nerfed?

No.

brummbar is a little to strong its not squishy and often bounces shells and is very hard hitting on alot of targets. smokes and speed help a ton when available. A+ unit

It was already recently nerfed. Read the patch notes. They reduced its armour

Think about Some Parts, but it's not Against Anti-Infantry.

Just Reducing its shell Penetration (140/120/100 to 100/80/60) can be happened. or slightly Increasing its resource(420/150/14 to 440/155/14~15) can be happened. but reducing anti-infantry ability can make its color Worse.

you know. BrumPaK Comp(Brummbar + PaK) is very Strong comp.
USF's logical counter is Pack howi/M8a1 + Jackson comp. but Panzerwerfer and Frontal reinforce such as bunker or 251 makes it weaker.

British is frankly...... Harder. because Comet time is too late.
but Brit can break Ostheer before the roster building finished.

Of course both 6pdr and 57mm is almost no use against V1 Brummbar. but with Spamming Cromwell or sherman, Dive with smoke can be also a way.

so. Some Anti-vehicle ability of Brummmbar can be nerfed. but don't think about Anti-infantry.

Think about Some Parts, but it's not Against Anti-Infantry.

Just Reducing its shell Penetration (140/120/100 to 100/80/60) can be happened. or slightly Increasing its resource(420/150/14 to 440/155/14~15) can be happened. but reducing anti-infantry ability can make its color Worse.

you know. BrumPaK Comp(Brummbar + PaK) is very Strong comp.
USF's logical counter is Pack howi/M8a1 + Jackson comp. but Panzerwerfer and Frontal reinforce such as bunker or 251 makes it weaker.

British is frankly...... Harder. because Comet time is too late.
but Brit can break Ostheer before the roster building finished.

Of course both 6pdr and 57mm is almost no use against V1 Brummbar. but with Spamming Cromwell or sherman, Dive with smoke can be also a way.

so. Some Anti-vehicle ability of Brummmbar can be nerfed. but don't think about Anti-infantry.

AI is to much problem, as combination armour+speed.

A doctrinal ability should not dictate the balance of a stock unit. If that were the case, we could nerf the Brummbar to the ground because Ostheer already has frag bombs to deal with infantry blobs.

But back to the point: I don't have any tests or data, but I am fairly certain that only a KV2 can reliably deal with an ATG. A Comet won't wipe the ATG from range 20-40 without getting hit hard himself. The phosphorus can deal some damage, that is true though. A Brummbar can do it though. Usually two shots are sufficient. The main point however was that you cannot reliably counter the Brummbar with anything else than a TD. Mediums are unreliable, ATGs will heavily bleed you or get wiped and bazookas are probably the worst thing to get in this case.

All of this applies to the KV-8, with higher armor, health and slightly worse mobility, but with a turret, and the kv-8 can't "miss". I don't see how the Brummbar countering team weapons (if they are at range) makes it OP

I don't see how the Brummbar countering team weapons (if they are at range) makes it OP

Brummar to much often wipes infantry and support weapons with two shots.

Brummar to much often wipes infantry and support weapons with two shots.

So does a single lucky Katyusha. The good thing about Brummbar is that it is reliable while being expectable. You know that it is going to hurt you but not going to wipe you unless you are extremely clumped up with your infantry. And it takes at least 2 shots to bring down UKF/USF at guns and 3 for SOV ones. While all this can be done with a single lucky Katty/PWerfer strike with relative safety and almost no risk compared to Brummbar. Considering the unit is also a casemate, you should simply know that it is going to rek your infantry and just avoid it, plant mines, use wildly available (allies) TDs.

For the topic, I do agree that the defensive Brummbar can get super strong especially when combined with something like an Elephant or when put behind a shotblocker to shoot from safety. Thus I also propose the changes Vipper already proposed to make it more offensive/breakthrough oriented rather than a defensive tool.

So give the panther HE shot like Sherman and we can then Talk about nerfing the Brumbar.